Diff Ratio change, 4.875 to 5.29 (& now a 5.86)From what cars can crown and pinions be used?

80 replies [Last post]
Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #51
I don;t think we can swap

I don;t think we can swap front and rear, besides other factors they have different splines. What exactly do u mean? putting the rear kaiser locker in a front pajero diff in the IO?

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #52
KL103 is a tr4 and gen 2

KL103 is a tr4 and gen 2 (7.25") Pajero front locker.

All I'm saying is I'll be running 5.29 ratio soon no matter what :)

Nothing to do with swapping fronts and rears...

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #53
...

Elton John made "blue eyes"....Glen made "blue finger nail"...lol...

I didn't fully follow and I am a bit lost about your research, but 5.29 does sound interesting....are you going to fit your lockers as well....

Happy io

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #54
Smash thumb

Claude io wrote:

Elton John made "blue eyes"....Glen made "blue finger nail"...lol...

I didn't fully follow and I am a bit lost about your research, but 5.29 does sound interesting....are you going to fit your lockers as well....

Happy io

 

hahaha, yes, That was the MOST pain I have ever felt! I have busted 8 bones plus heaps of other pain full experiences  in my life. But this takes the cake! after i used the dremel to grind a hole in my nail it was instant release tho! pain not to bad once the pressure is released.

 

Jop
Jop's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/12/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #55
Front diff case number?

Hi again, do we know what the io's front diff case has stamped on the case ie. KN3 or KN4? Should be marked on the top face.

 

 

Jop
Jop's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/12/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #56
Sorry double post

.

Jop
Jop's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/12/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #57
Ignore the red circle, the

Ignore the red circle, the KN2 is the upside down lettering.

 

What designation is on the IO diffs?

tribolas
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 05/04/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #58
Pinin front...

ALL pinin front diffs are high pinion ones and come with TWO front diff cases...

MB569986...( found mainly in AT ) and MB393001...( found mainly in MT , this is the 7.25" one ).

The second one is bigger,beefier,stronger comparing to the first one.

For this MB393001 case there are available three OEM ring and pinion gear sets with the following ratios...

4.636...MR179199

4.875...MB831031

4.900...MR516562

Additional to those someone can also use the following Mitsu gears...

4.625...MB831030

5.285...MB860230 ( old ) , MB831032 ( new ). This is the same to Hyundai's 5.285...MB393708.

Uprading to MB393001 and 5.29 gears is an easy job and highly recommended for offroaders with bigger tires.

If someone wants to keep the "small" MB569986 , which I do not recommend , there is an OEM gear set  MR476356 with 5.111 ratio to work with.

Hope this helps...

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #59
I replied to this earlyer and

I replied to this earlyer and it seems to be missing now :(

Are you 100% sure thats correct ? I assumed the same thing after going through the epc parts data.
BUT check the pics in this link http://blog.daum.net/galloperoffroad/147  the MB303708 is right helix , we need left helix for the front on high pinion diffs.
unless the pics are of something else unrelated the the post.... the front and rear gears face opisite directions in a high pinion front. these both face the same way. so i think the MB303708 is probably for a gen1 also!

Have you done this? 100% sure the gen2 high pinion pajero is the same as the pinin hi pinion? the pinion could be liated in a sliightly diferent spot or something annoying like that for all I know? But based on what i have seen im 99.8% sure all 7.25"  high pinion ring and pinion sets will swap... Time will tell.

tribolas
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 05/04/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #60
You are right...

You are absolute right...!!!!!!!!

Hyundai MB303708 is a low pinion set. It DOES NOT fit pinins. I repeat...DOES NOT...

It is the same to Mitsu MB527152 and NOT to Mitsu MB831032.

 

Must be deleted from my post.

jzeinoun
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 16/07/2014
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #61
tribolas... u out there man?

tribolas wrote:

ALL pinin front diffs are high pinion ones and come with TWO front diff cases...

MB569986...( found mainly in AT ) and MB393001...( found mainly in MT , this is the 7.25" one ).

The second one is bigger,beefier,stronger comparing to the first one.

For this MB393001 case there are available three OEM ring and pinion gear sets with the following ratios...

4.636...MR179199

4.875...MB831031

4.900...MR516562

Additional to those someone can also use the following Mitsu gears...

4.625...MB831030

5.285...MB860230 ( old ) , MB831032 ( new ). This is the same to Hyundai's 5.285...MB393708.

Uprading to MB393001 and 5.29 gears is an easy job and highly recommended for offroaders with bigger tires.

If someone wants to keep the "small" MB569986 , which I do not recommend , there is an OEM gear set  MR476356 with 5.111 ratio to work with.

Hope this helps...

 

 

hey tribolas, if your still out there, id really appreciate if u shed some light on the below posts 75 and 77.

im sure so many gen3 3.0L owners are just as keen to know the answer to this...

and so far it doesnt seem like any of the pajero forums out there do provide a clear answer to that question.

thanks guys,

cheers

Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #62
Some usefull info on the

Some usefull info on the matter for those wondering about high and low pinion: (from a jeep forum)

 

Rear axles are (almost universally) high pinion.

A front axle may be "high pinion" or "low pinion," as indicated in a previously-attached post, it has to do with the relative position of the pinion centreline to the axle shaft axle - as mounted.

A "high pinion" front axle has the axis of the pinion above the axis of the halfshafts, and will therefore require a gearset with the spiral in the opposite direction.

A "low pinion" front axle has the axis of the pinion below the axis of the halfshafts, and will use hypoid gearsets with the spiral in the same direction as the rear axle.

The "high pinion" axle was done for, I believe, two primary reasons:
- The increased clearance between the ground and pinion axis (generally in the range of 2-5", but that can be significant) can improve obstacle avoidance when off-road.
- Hypoid gearsets have a strong "drive" side and a weaker "coast" side (when you're backing up, you're driving your rear axle on the "coast" side of the teeth.) A high-pinion axle allows the hypoid spiral to be reversed, which means that the front axle will then be driven on the "drive" side. A low-pinion axle is driven on the "coast" side, and is therefore able to transfer noticeably less power (I think it's a difference of 7-10% - unless you're on the ragged edge of axle performance, it's probably not enough to matter.)

 

..................

What is a high pinion axle? High pinion and low pinion reference where in relation the pinion gear is located within the housing based on the centerline of the ring gear. High pinion axles have the pinion gear located above the centerline of the ring gear and a low pinion is located below the centerline of the ring gear.

Why is this important? First and foremost the importance is in terms of ring and pinion strength. When a low pinon axle is used on the front position of a four wheel drive vehicle, the ring gear is spun backwards. This is important because the ring gear teeth are curved. A simple geometry lesson tells us the convex side is stronger because the load is equally distributed throughout the length of the tooth. This can be verified by comparing the ring gear tooth to a dam holding back a lake. The convex side goes towards the load. The high pinion axle uses a reverse cut gear, and when used in a front position, the convex side becomes the drive side again, and the concave side becomes the coast side. Consequently, a high pinion axle located in the rear position of a vehicle is spinning backwards, and again the strong side of the tooth and the weak side of the tooth are switched.

 

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #63
I cant remember, Ill reply

I cant remember, Ill reply again when i find my pics or check mine. but i dont think its either.

Im Still keen on that 5.28 jtop front crown and pinion!

Jop wrote:

Hi again, do we know what the io's front diff case has stamped on the case ie. KN3 or KN4? Should be marked on the top face.

 

 

 

Jop wrote:

Ignore the red circle, the KN2 is the upside down lettering.

 

What designation is on the IO diffs?

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #64
OK, it looks like the 5.285

OK, it looks like the 5.285 from the pajero does fit the iO!

I just found this page in my search for a front MB831032 crown and pinion just now!

http://pinin.ru/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?147599.15

 

the Google translation into English is not so great. but im pretty sure if confirms it fits?!

 

I have already ordered a new 8" 5.285 for the rear, just trying to track down a front. Found some one with one, just convincing them to sell it to me now. Otherwise its arount $600 new. I bought the rear for a Galloper, only $300 ish new delivered

 

Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #65
There is a guy that had done

There is a guy that had done it in Russia but with Mitsubishi parts which difficult to find, did u order rear set from Galloper? because all rear 8" gallopers use 12 bolts ring and not 10 like Pinin.

Hope something really comes up! :)

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #66
Not true, Here is the first

Not true,

Here is the first rear gears i bought for the galloper, the 5.86. The rear fits perfectly. So i just ordered a 5.285 set to suit the same galloper. I hope this is what they send! As you can see, the 10 bolt holes line up perfectly to my kasier locker.

Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #67
I thought u meant original

I thought u meant original Hyundai parts.... because i have found 2 hyundai galloper part numbers for rear 8" 5.285 but were both 12 bolt rings. Obviously this r&p is for other model that used other diff ratio and perhaps 10 bolts :)

 

Let's hope the pinion fits as well! :)

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #68
I just tracked down a front,

I just tracked down a front, with any luck ill have them in the io in a couple of weeks. 

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #69
Galloper 5.285 arrived

Pinin on the rocks wrote:

I thought u meant original Hyundai parts.... because i have found 2 hyundai galloper part numbers for rear 8" 5.285 but were both 12 bolt rings. Obviously this r&p is for other model that used other diff ratio and perhaps 10 bolts :)

 

Let's hope the pinion fits as well! :)

 

Well here she is, my 5.285 8" rear for Galloper, and it does have 10 bolt! i think maybe whoever you talked to was confused and they were not actually the 8" diffs?

It appears to be an OEM product too!?

Just waiting for the front set to arrive from NZ, then i will install them. Hopefully ill be rolling on 5.285 and lockers next week.! :) woohoo, at freeking last.

 

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #70
nice

I hope that everything will fit nicely....what are the cost of these ? Might be a good time to fit that new clutch as well. 

Nicecool

Happy io

Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #71
the 12 bolt diffs i found

the 12 bolt diffs i found through the spare parts numbers... for hyundai... i will search the part code later, it was the only one for 5.285 and 8".

 

Mobis seems to be a company producing aftermarket and not only spare parts for hyundai in Korea :)

 

Great job! :) go for it!

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #72
As posted in my build

As posted in my build thread.
Some good and bad news. The rear Crown and pinion are NOT a straight bolt in,,, But they almost are :) seems Hyundai in all there wisdom decided to use larger bolts in the crown wheel and a different thread nut on the pinion. But the PCD and everything else was the same, so some new bolts, a nut and the holes in the locker drilled out to suit here she is all setup with 5.285! No problems at all they said. Bayswater diffs charged $323 for all this including a new bearing. not to bad really. and only took them half a day..

 

STILL waiting for the front tho. NEVER use Transdiff in kilsyth! bunch of lying pricks! they have had the front a week, want to charge me $650 plus GST! and dont have to do anything but bolt the bits in and set it up. Wish i took the front to Bayswater diffs aswell, Id have it in the car tonight!
After finding out I took the rear else where and the price they started spinning shit about the locker not working and they pulled it apart etc (im pretty pissed off about that in itself) never pull my locker apart without asking me! im betting they just wanted to see how it worked.. anyway, they said they fixed that now too. Dont know what to do about them?! 

 

 

 

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #73
The front fits too :)    Back

The front fits too :) 

 

Back from the assholes at Transdiff in Kilsyth.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #74
.

If you are back from the asshole...you just have to put it in now cheeky

Happy io

jzeinoun
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 16/07/2014
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #75
hi Glen, i must say im verry

hi Glen,

i must say im verry impressed by the progress youve made so far with the diff conversions.. great job!

i would like to ask your advice on this matter, knowing that you could be quite reliable after all the experience uve had with ur project so far. my question would be in regards to diff interchangeability among the pajero gen2 and the io, with reference to tribolas' particular post about the various diff ratios that would fit the MT io diff case.

now heres the thing, im not after upgrading an io diff but rather going the other way round and upgrading a paj gen3 diff. i know it sounds a little irrelevant to ur case, but in fact the pajero gen3 3.0L model had the same 4.636...MR179199 7.25" ring and pinion as the io. so that means fitting the 5.285 ratio MB831032 shouldnt be a problem as per tribolas' post, as long as they both share the same bolt pattern.

could u please shed some light on the issue at hand, and any further advice would be verry welcome.

thank you,

regards,

Joe

 

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #76
OMG its a new machine!

OMG its a new machine!
the 5.295 ratio has returned this car to its stock performance but with 31" wheels. Combined with the 1.944 low range gear swap i did at the same time its just awesome!
The Kaiser front and rear locker and long stroke coil overs I swapped in at the same time no doubt helped a lot also, But I was able to glide over everything i struggled with at my local urban 4x4 testing ground, a few obstacles that i had NO hope at seemed to offer no challenge at all!   Im over the moon with the results!

 

jzeinoun wrote:

hi Glen,

i must say im verry impressed by the progress youve made so far with the diff conversions.. great job!

i would like to ask your advice on this matter, knowing that you could be quite reliable after all the experience uve had with ur project so far. my question would be in regards to diff interchangeability among the pajero gen2 and the io, with reference to tribolas' particular post about the various diff ratios that would fit the MT io diff case.

now heres the thing, im not after upgrading an io diff but rather going the other way round and upgrading a paj gen3 diff. i know it sounds a little irrelevant to ur case, but in fact the pajero gen3 3.0L model had the same 4.636...MR179199 7.25" ring and pinion as the io. so that means fitting the 5.285 ratio MB831032 shouldnt be a problem as per tribolas' post, as long as they both share the same bolt pattern.

could u please shed some light on the issue at hand, and any further advice would be verry welcome.

thank you,

regards,

Joe

 

Hi joe, Id be willing to bet even the locker would fit into the front of any pajero 7.25" dff! 

so i think you have no problems. your pajero has the 9" rear tho? I have a 5.285 rear if you want, $80, i bought it for a lot more wanting an 8" but they guy sent the wrong size, so refunded me. He will send a mate to pick it up one of these days. otherwize he said he will take $80 just to get rid of it.  so that would leave you only needing a front...
Actualy, you said you have a gen3? they are larger again? 9.5 or so? i dont think you can get that ratio in the larger diffs.

 
jzeinoun
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 16/07/2014
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #77
hi, so glad everything is

hi,

so glad everything is working out for u the way u planned man :) theres no better satisfaction than planning and getting things done the right way with the results we hope for.

and my hopes right now of puting 33's and 35's on my gen3 in the near future all depend on ur experience so far, so here i am again trying to gather more precise data from u since we probably shared the same part number for the front 7.25" ring and pinion 4.636...MR179199. a quick search on partsbase.org confirms the same.

so far i know the following:

- front diff is 7.25" part number MR179199 should work with the MB831032 - 5.285 ratio just like urs did.

- rear diff, im yet to confirm wether its a 9" or 9.5". part number for that would be MR162750 which most probably works with the MB598486 - 5.285 ratio, provided its a 9" for both. and with a matching bolt pattern of 12.

again i stress on the fact that i dont have solid evidence for the exchangeabilty, all i have are simple refferences from partsbase.org, arb application guide, tribolas' post and your own posts.

so what do you think? 

do we both share the same front diff of 7.25" and 10 bolt pattern?

whats the bolt pattern on the 9" rear ring that u have?

realy need to get some solid evidence on this matter man... its been weeks on end and the only clear application i have reference to so far is in russian on an l200...

and here's the link if u think this might be of any help providing google translate does a gd job at ur end..

http://www.pajero4x4.ru/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20998&start=75

 

cheers mate

 

 

 

 

jzeinoun
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 16/07/2014
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #78
well, the only way i could

well, the only way i could find out was to take the diffs apart... 
and so i have done... 
and thats what ive found out: 

front: MR179199  ring size 7.25" with 10 bolt pattern of 10mm 
rear: MR162750  ring size 9" with 12 bolt pattern of 10mm 

and in case anyone is wondering, YES!! they actually could be exchanged for a lower ratio of 5.285:1 

part numbers as follows: 
front: MB831032 
rear: MB598486 

hope this might be of any help to anyone out there :)

 

cheers

MementooMori
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 26/07/2021
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #79
Help

Hi. I wonder if anyone else is here. It's
been a long time since the last post. 
I would like to change the ratio of my Pinin and I wonder if anyone has succeeded 100 percent. 
Is it enough to buy the parts mentioned by -jzeinoun- and put it in and everything will work? 
Is there anyone who could help me? 
I don't speak English well and even with a translator I may not understand everything on this site.
My Pinin is 1.8 MPI 2002
 
 
 
 

 

ManBearPig
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 02/08/2021
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #80
More questions here

Guys, i'm a newb, and my wife bought a 2nd gen hyundai galloper, (basically a poor 1st gen pajero). It's a v6 auto, on 33" tires.
4.625 stock ratio, i'd like to go bigger, since the trans is finding it difficult to manage theese tires. What pajero do i take the parts off, if i want to get it closer to a 5 as ratio?
I tried all over the web, but... idk, can't find anything besides this post on this forum.
I'd love if someone could dumb it down for me, like: "tske the diffs from this mitsubishi, that year, those measures and thats it"...
Please...

Syndicate

Syndicate content

Translate This Site Into Your Language