Front & rear Locker diffs for the iO! whos interested ?

112 replies [Last post]
bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #51
lockers on hill of death

Glen wrote:
They are on the way. I have emailed you the tracking number KTM We will all have to go for a pajerio cruise when we are up that way just after xmas. Pot the lockers to the test rescuing all the other iO,s :-)

You can pull me up the "hill of death" at Tamborine ;)

.

ktm300
ktm300's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #52
.

I think the "hill of death" is calling us!

 

Lets not just talk about it, lets set some dates & do it.

 

What do ya's think?

 

 

 

"It should be assumed everything I say and do is incorrect ".

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #53
io meetup

ktm300 wrote:

I think the "hill of death" is calling us!

 

Lets not just talk about it, lets set some dates & do it.

 

What do ya's think?

 

 

 


I'm keen whenever, glen was potentially looking at xmas/nye ish.

If anyone is heading down toward the gold coast drop me a pm if you want to meet up and do some of the mt tamborine tracks

(ps we need a trips/meetups section!)

.

Anonymous
  • Online Status:
  • Post Number: #54
meet up and lock diff quote

Hello,

A bit too far for me, I am in Canberra. We just had the yearly" home and leisure show", I got a quote from ARB to install a rear locker...oops...$2100...on special! And they are not sure to be able to do it for the io, they will check with they engineer...and yes I told them they can, but I am not a good ref!

While they are probably one of the best thing to add on the car, they are not cheap!

See you,

Claude/Claud io

Ebs (not verified)
  • Online Status:
  • Post Number: #55
Thats in reach of me aswell,

Thats in reach of me aswell, that would be sick if we could all meet up there and do some tracks!

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #56
gold coast meetup

Sounds good
- you could do all the tracks on mt tamborine in a good half day but could probably spend a whole day if it has rained recently having a play and practice up and down slopes so there isn't that much to do however i'm still looking for some other places to go. Lots of the 4wd earth listed tracks around here are private property and come with massive fines but if you like exploring canyons etc there are loads of waterfalls and rainforest areas to see on foot.

 

I'd be keen for a day trip down south to your end of he world too!

we need a "meet up" thread to post and organise dates etc.

.

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #57
hills of death

damn! just found a fourth hill-of-death near my place, i'm going to do a bit of fact-finding and give one a go. to dump tyres or to not dump tyres - that is the question..

.

ktm300
ktm300's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #58
Whoo hoo!!

The diff locks have arrived. Couple of weeks and they'll be in. Cant wait.

I've been chasing a front locker for 5 years.

My first post on this site was chasing lockers.

Who would have thought, thanks to a random web site and a total stranger 2 states away (+ a wad of cash!), I have not only a front but also a rear locker.

 

Big thanks has to go to Glen for all the hard work and honesty, he has shown.

It's all greatly appreciated.

 

Can't wait!  cheeky

 

 

 

"It should be assumed everything I say and do is incorrect ".

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #59
Front locker

I'm keen to see how they go, I may get a front too if I have the cash. Brazilian snorkel would be awesome too

.

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #60
  All good KTM. Cant wait to

 

All good KTM.

Cant wait to come and try these hills of death Bob! :)

Just need to pull my finger out and install these freewheeling lockers! only just replaced my torn engine mounts! Id still like to change the dif ratio while im at it, IF i can. If i got that LOW low range KTM spoke of would not bother tho, prefer the low revs on the street.

ktm300
ktm300's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #61
Its time for fitting.

 

I'm booked in tomorrow, to the gun transmission bloke in these parts.

It's getting

  1. new C.V's.
  2. 4 new C.V boots.
  3. Front and rear Lockers.

 

 

Think I'm excited?

 

 

 

 

"It should be assumed everything I say and do is incorrect ".

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #62
diff rebuild

ktm300 wrote:

I'm booked in tomorrow, to the gun transmission bloke in these parts.

It's getting

  1. new C.V's.
  2. 4 new C.V boots.
  3. Front and rear Lockers.

Think I'm excited?

Who's doing the diff work?

.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #63
new this new that

Someone sound like a teenage just before his first date:)

I was going to have the ARB diff, but between the garage that said :can't be done' and the other who recently quote me $2700, a joke:( I don't feel like a teenage on that one! more like I just got  a bad STD...lol...and I am still to found someone to agreed to fit the kaiser if I decide to go that way...ARB have too much power around here...

I will wait to see how yours go...

Happy io

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #64
arb diff

The RD05 unit fits perfectly to the io - ARb know this.

I would expect $1200 for parts and labor of about $500 with a compressor of about $140 - I paid for parts and compressor when I bought mine and nothing for labor.

 

kaiser would be cheaper as the parts are less and the compressor is not needed however labor would be about the same

.

ktm300
ktm300's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #65
.

I'm getting it done by Harts transmissions in Brendale. I've been talking to Clint, on & off for quite a while now.

Around here the ARB office & any of their retailers seem to know bugger all bar part numbers, are unwilling to help and in my opinion openly condescending. Having said that, I have emailed engineering @ head office and had good communication with them.

I think your fortunate Bob, to have had a good experience with them. I recall going into the Nudgee office, giving them details of the part #, contact person & branch in (S. A?) that did yours, only to be met with a shrug of the shoulders & a doubting idiot grin. angry

If that's their response to an easy sale, they wont ever get my cash.

 

 

 

Claud io is a hoot!  smiley

"It should be assumed everything I say and do is incorrect ".

natsterrr
natsterrr's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #66
ARB

I was thinking about this, and if it weren't for ARB's products' reputation, then they wouldn't get away with this service.

"come and see us when you get a real 4WD"...

Well, when I do get a 'real 4wd' (which many iO owners, myself included, would be thinking about for the future), I can buy everything I need for that from TJM / Ironman / etc etc.

The fact that ARB do have a product which will fit our vehicles means that they should be trying to gain our business and treat us well now so that we will go back to them in the future.

I'm glad they gave Bob a good experience and didn't charge for fitting - whoever did it was obviously good with customers and had a good business mind, but maybe just wasn't so good at divulging the information to the rest of the ARB company.

It would be interesting to go to our local ARB stores and just find out if they would be willing to give us a chance, and make a list of the stores to go to and which ones to avoid.

This is assuming I could afford to get the air locker, which I can't :(

Anyway, that was just wearing on my mind a bit today.

 

 

Size is not important; it's how you use it that matters!

fordem
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 19/06/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #67
I'm sorry, but I HAVE to ask this...

Who wants to attempt to define what a real 4WD is?  For most people the first item on that list will be a selectable low range gear ratio, which the iO has.  Someone is going to mention ground clearance - my iO (which has sagging springs) has noticeably more ground clearance than my Grand Vitara - when I was working on the transmission loom, at times I was on a creeper under the transmission with the vehicle on the ground - I can't get under the GV unless it's on ramps or stands, even without the creeper (and at 165lbs, I'm not a large person).

I'll be the first to admit that it wouldn't by my first choice to take off road here, but that is more about it's limited capacity (the space insdie it) than any limitation of it's capability. 

natsterrr
natsterrr's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #68
Real 4wd

We're all on this forum because we know that the iO is a real 4wd, and most of us like the idea of showing up the more popular 4wds with what we can do. The majority of the owners of these more popular vehicles would probably not define the iO as a real 4wd. The staff at ARB/TJM/etc most probably fit into the second category.

While I was at the sydney 4x4 show a couple of months back, I asked about the iO at virtually every stand. Answers ranged from "eee-ooo? nah mate, never heard of it. We don't do stuff for grey imports", through to one of the tagalong tour operators who said "all you need is a good bolt on recovery point or two and we'll get you to cape york, no problems". There were definitely a few good people out there who understood where I was coming from and were quite helpful. The Ironman suspension guy even checked that they had stock of the raised springs for the iO, which they did at the time.

It would be nice to see an io in 4wd action magazine or similar. KTM's would be a good one! I'm not sure if they've ever done a 'buying used' article for the iO. They've done suzuki and daihatsu small 4wds though.

Maybe we should do a proper write up for the magazine when we do a trip together - Bob can talk about his ARB locker, vs KTM and Glenn's Kaisers, and then compare it to one of our stocko's. Daniel can bring his camera and get the pics :)

If it gets published we could scan it in and put it on here for those outside Australia...

It would be nice to see what the companies would do - ARB getting more enquiries about the RD05. TJM should still have the CAD patterns for bullbars, maybe they could do another run. Maybe Glenn's custom coilover company could take off :D

Size is not important; it's how you use it that matters!

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #69
real 4wd

Unfortunatly Mitsubishi is not known for making good small 4wd's - irrespective if they can or not.

Suzuki is world renown with the sidekick, sierra, and even the jimny as is daihatsu with it's early 3cylinder farm trucks, the rocky followed by the feroza. They lost the plot with the terios but then so did the general consumer market.
If Mitsubishi had made a small pajero since the late 70's along side their full-size model we wouldn't be in this situation. Newcomers like the Kia have boomed due to the sale numbes and cheap price as did the lada niva. 
Toyota made the rav4 which is not a real 4wd but many view it as one. no low range, no underbody protection, limited travel etc.

The io was very expensive for what it was when released and the market it was aimed at had already diverged into "small&rough" (jimney) or "soft and car-like" (rav 4) leaving the io in a "too hard for the soft category and too soft for the hard category". Ironicly the Landrover with it's long heritage of hard-arsed 4wd's bombed with the freelander in the same way the io did. As many view the freelander as a too-soft option they are overlooked by most, the freelander was on my radar and is also excelent when worked up like the io's.

It is unlikely to see a pajero io detailed in a mainstream 4wd magazine outside the letters section and until that occurs it is unlikly to see accessories available mainstream, especially considring they stopped production in 2002, nearly 10 years ago.

I think a writeup and some good photos from a trip focusing on the io would be great to mass-mail to the major magazines and hey we might get someone interested, if only for a token piece.

I say screw em! :)

.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #70
What did you say....lol...

I just came back from the coast, Merimbula, and I just got to the forum...So I started to read all these ARB comments, and I thought that it started to get a bit "serious"  Bob, or should I write Mr Bob_oz, as I read somewhere:) your last comment just made my day, I laugh so much, my wife is wondering what is happening!

So yes, long and hard.....lol...and yes, I don't know how, when or where yet, but I will get my diff lock, and I will enjoy it even more:)

Happy io...laugh

 

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #71
I empty my bag...

This is a copy of my email to ARB

 

"In addition to all of this, we are constantly on the lookout for new ways to improve our business practices, from distribution to customer service. ARB is a Quality Endorsed Company and wherever we can, we endeavour to ‘raise the bar’". This is what your site mention.

I have a mitsubishi pajero io 2002 3 doors, manual. I have been quoted $2090 to install a diff lock during the "home and leisure show" with the condition that you could find a diff lock that fit in my car. I was supposed to be contacted by someone regarding this. After 2 weeks of waiting, I went to the shop in Fyshwick, and was told "diff is too small, nothing for this car"from someone that did not even bother to come and see me (Marcus? used his collegue from the front desk) I would have appreciated to be called about this. But where I am not happy and where you could improve customer service would be to use people that know what can fit and what cannot. I understand that the io is not common. I told "Marcus", using his collegue, that the RD05 does fit, and was told that no io have been fitted with a diff lock but some research would be done and that someone would call me. I am still waiting, I have done my research and I can tell you that the RD05 fit, and that it as been done by ARB regency park adelaide. The worst part of all that is that I used ARB product and found them just great and I really want that diff lock! but because of my complaint I am not trusting, happy to bring my car to fyshwick. We all loose...

I feel better now...:)

Happy io

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #72
Summary

Sorry, I should have just written:

io= good
Arb locker = good
Arb = hit-&-miss, generally miss

...so screw em! >:)

.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #73
a bit of a win

Fully agreed, they are like lemon and cream, can't mix them!!

I have received some feedback from ARB, see below. It is good to see some good result and some understanding. At least the next io owner should receive the customer service we all deserve. Not knowing is one thing, but not being look after because we "just have an io" was not acceptable. But for me they will have to give me an unbelievable deal to go back...

It is easier to loose a customer than getting him back...

 

Hello Claude,

Please accept our apologies for the service you have received. It would certainly appear that there has been a breakdown in communications, and we will make every effort to restore your faith in ARB.

It is correct that our listings do not cover the Mitsubishi IO. You are however correct; on speaking with the Manager of the Regency Park store, we have confirmed that they did indeed fit an RD05 Air locker to one in 2009. From his memory, the fitment was straight forward. This information will now be included in the next application chart.

Marcus Ganchov will be in touch with you shortly.

Regards

Roger Chestney

Roger Chestney

National Customer Service Coordinator

Occupational Health & Safety Manager

ARB Corporation Ltd

Head office and Manufacturing Complex

* 42 - 44 Garden St, Kilsyth, VIC, 3137

AUSTRALIA –

613 9761 6622

, rchestney@arb.com.au

 

 

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #74
that's me

Yep, that's my install.

.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #75
ARB

Hello there,

I have been contacted by my local ARB, they wanted to talk to me. So after standing up and complain, I sat down and listen! He explain that because of paper problem, your fitting was not register in they listing. Anyway, his approch was great and if thing are still going well, I will have my diff lock:) after all. (yes with an extra discount)

My new 225/75/16 km2 made me very happy, soon the diff... 

Thanks to you Bob, and this forum.

VERY happy io.

NZIO
NZIO's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #76
Kaisers

So how are the Kaiser owners out there getting on with their new toys...? KTM, Glen, anyone else?

I'm putting together my business case.... :)

ktm300
ktm300's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 20/08/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #77
.

Mine are worth every sent, in combo with lift and articulation in the rear, you couldn't ask for more.

It's as good as it can be.

 

Having said that.

If I were doing this over I would go with what was my original plan. Auto locker in the front and selectable locker in the rear.

If a selectable was available for the front I would go with that also.

There is a small benefit in being able to switch off the front end when off road, and the rear when on road.

Cheers.

 

Edit. Business case?

 

 

"It should be assumed everything I say and do is incorrect ".

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #78
front locker

Ktm, it is good to know that you are enjoying the lockers:)  I still watch your great "testing diff video"=)) rolling on the floor  

I would love to know if a front ARB could fit as I think that a front locker will be a very good thing to have, maybe even better than the rear one?

May be someone in Greece (Like Themis, Pininokio) or Brazil or other place have more info??....hum.... :-? thinking

 

Happy io.

Ettienne
Ettienne's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 14/07/2014
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #79
ARB locker fitment to a 1999 model 5 door

Hi

I know this has probably been asked a 100 times; but just to be sure for my future planning.

Will the ARB rear diff locker RD 05 fit on my year model 1999?

I want to start searching for it here in South Africa. We do have ARB dealers here. I want to see if they are also as accomodating as the Aus.

 

Thans so much for the info

Ettienne

Thanks from E van eck

fordem
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 19/06/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #80
The RD05 has been discontinued.

The replacement is the RD210 - which ARB lists as fitting the rear of all years/models of the Pajero/Montero/Shogun iO & Pinin.

I do believe however that some iO's have a different, smaller rear diff (maybe the 1.6) so you may want to verify before purchasing that your car has an 8" diff, with a 10 bolt ring gear and a 124mm internal diameter on the ring gear - this will require you to pull the rear "third member" - so a couple of hours of work, some sealant and gear oil - you don't need the diff specialist just yet.

koos990
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/10/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #81
I know this is an old

I know this is an old thread.

But for info here is a good review about the Kaiser lockers. It behaves similar to a detroit locker - not good for tar. (I assume this is the reason KTM suggested ARB (selectable) at the rear?

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25328&page=11

You have to go to page 11 for the final conclusion:

"As a result and following extensive tests we have concluded to the following:

The application of the KAISER locker on the front axle should only be permitted to vehicles that are focused exclusively for offroad use.
Application on the front axle and use on tarmac surface road should only be allowed to very experienced drivers and always following the warning that it can lead to extremely "nervous" behavior of the steering system even on a straight road.

Application of the KAISER locker on the rear axle of vehicles with manual transmission should only be advised to vehicles that are focused mainly for offroad use. Use of the KAISER locker on the rear axle of a vehicle with manual transmission for tarmac use can randomly generate excessive sudden "clonking" noise and vibration of the rear axle due to sudden locking of the differential when the foot of the driver is taken off the accelerator pedal when negotiating a turn or when the driver engages the clutch again when negotiating a turn.
On the other hand when the KAISER is fitted to the REAR axle of vehicles with AUTOMATIC transmission and used either on the road or for offroading all the above mentioned negative symptoms are totally cancelled and it may only exhibit some sudden but not alarming noise when reversing and then accelerating hard forwards."

 

More info:

The following input was received from the end users:
1. Land Rover Defender D110 with the P38 rear axle and manual gearbox. The unit was removed from the vehicle following client's complains related to very noisy and inappropriate for road use operation and behaviour.
2. Discovery 2 V8 with automatic gearbox. The client has fitted only the rear axle unit and has been extremely happy with its operation and the way it has totally transformed the handling and driving characteristics of the vehicle both on and off the road on conditions ranging from dry tarmac, to mud, snow, ice, sand, wet grass, gravel etc. In fact he was so happy with the general handling of the vehicle that he has never bothered to fit the front KAISER unit to the vehicle and therefore we have no input about how this unit would have behaved if fitted.
3. Range Rover Classic, V8, with automatic gearbox. The client has fitted it to the front axle. The vehicle is fitted with a rear 100% McNamara locker. Unfortunately the KAISER fitted on the front axle has made the vehicle almost too dangerous to drive on tarmac roads and it is to be removed soon.
4. Daihatsu Feroza. There were three units sold and fitted. On all occasions the owners of the vehicles have agreed that the KAISER is an extremely capable locker but it can only be used for offroad driving conditions. When the vehicle was driven on tarmac with the four wheel drive system engaged it could render the vehicle almost too dangerous to use or should be only used by a VERY experienced driver. (one of the users is racing with his Daihatsu on the Greek offroading championship)
5. Suzuki Grand Vitara. The unit was fitted on two different vehicles of the same type. On both occasions it has shown extremely noisy operation inappropriate for non experienced drivers when used on tarmac surfaced roads. On the other hand it was an absolute joy to use when driving offroad and it has totally transformed the capabilities of the vehicles in a positive way. On the first occasion the owner (who had initially ordered the unit) has removed it immediately due to the dangerous and noisy operation of the KAISER. The second user has fitted it to his vehicle and still makes use of it but his vehicle is used almost exclusively for offroad driving.
6. Jeep Wrangler. The owner has never got back with impression and I was unable to reach him so can not provide any input from him.
7. Mitsubishi Pinin. The owner first fitted the rear axle unit where he has found that it developed some noise and relatively "nervous" operation on tarmac use. It was extremely good and handled perfectly for offroad driving and on offroad condition or conditions of limited traction. When he has fitted the unit of the front axle he has decided to keep it but is not using four wheel drive on tarmac surfaced roads anymore since the KAISER makes the car almost dangerous to drive like that. On the other hand it has totally transformed (in a positive way) the capabilities of the Pinin when used for offroad driving or on very slippery conditions.

 

I am also lookign for lockers, the LSD is useless.

I am actually considering the kaiser in the front ONLY as I never use 4x4 on tarmac, thus should not experience the negative behaviour.
 

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #82
Diff lock

Old thread but still burning hot ! I have asked KTM some feedback....but no reply, would love to hear his feedback.

On yet road, I use the "all wheel drive" 4H as the mud tyres are not the best. Since I am now mainly using my io for the week end I have been thinking to get the kaiser at the front too, and just slow down when it rain !

Kaiser feedback are very "all other the place", some love it, some don't, and from car to car it have different result, some bad some good...

Don't hesitate to contact Glen if you want one, he can be hard to get in touch, but very helpful when you find him :)

Very happy with my ARB rear locker, it had a couple of problem with oil in the air hose, but was still working and got fixed...no question asked..all free.

My assumption, please correct me if I am wrong, is that ARB doesn't have a diff lock for the front.

I wouldn't say that the LSD is useless, better than nothing...but not a diff lock :)

Happy io

singlecell
singlecell's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 06/07/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #83
front

I have heard that having a locker in the front of a swb 4x4 running in AWD is a pain in the ass. Not that I have any experience at it. Just what I read.  Lucky we have the option for 2wd.

fordem
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 19/06/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #84
No personal experience

A friend of mine bought a pair for his Samurai, intalled the rear and took it back out after a couple of weeks - he was very unhappy with the "on-road" behavious - he offered them to me, however they are too small for my GV, or I would have tried the rear.

 One word of caution on a Kaiser locker in the front of an iO - be aware the front axle center disconnect will always drive the right wheel - this works well with an open differential, but may not work as well with an auto locker, I suspect it may pull to the right, and no, freewheel hubs are not an option (due to the front axle design).

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #85
Front diff

What do you mean by ?

"be aware the front axle center disconnect will always drive the right wheel "

I thought that once "disconnected", so in 2H that it does work as an open diff.

Happy io

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #86
different route

Claude io wrote:

What do you mean by ?

"be aware the front axle center disconnect will always drive the right wheel "

I thought that once "disconnected", so in 2H that it does work as an open diff.

Happy io

I am looking at fitting a 98 era pajero front diff to my Io so I can run an ARb air locker - the systems are almost the same, the diff is just a tad larger but with a diff-drop I should have enough room between diff and engine to fit a larger diff,

I've always prefered to be able to connect or disconnect the locker as opposed to the auto systems as they tend to cause traction loss when cornering in the wet - not nice

the solenoid engagment and clutches are all the same etc

.

fordem
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 19/06/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #87
Front freewheel

Claude io wrote:

What do you mean by ?

"be aware the front axle center disconnect will always drive the right wheel "

I thought that once "disconnected", so in 2H that it does work as an open diff.

Happy io

 

The front axle has a vacuum operated freewheel mechanism, also known as a center (or center axle) disconnect intended to reduce drag when the vehicle is in 2H - on the Pajero iO (and I believe the full size Pajeros) this mechanism simply disconnects the left axle from the differential side gear - the right axle is always connected.

When an open differential is fitted disconnecting one axle allows the gears in the differential to spin without moving the differential carrier, ring gear, pinion & drive shaft - if a locker is fitted, the right side coupler may remain engaged with the "driver" and if that happens the entire differential assembly will be driven by the right front wheel - at this time, the left front wheel is only driving maybe 30 cm of axle, so I would expect there to be more drag on the right side of the vehicle and that the steering will pull.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #88
Disconnecting system

I didn't think of that, and agree, if it does work this way that could even be dangerous to drive (while in 2H, it will be a 3H !!) .... I haven't heard of this before ...are we missing something ?

Happy io

fordem
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 19/06/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #89
It won't be 3H, and this is in theory

The front drive to the axle will still be disconnected in the transfer case, but there will be some amount of drag - please note - this is theoretical, I have neither tried nor experienced this - I'm just saying watch for it. 

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #90
Theory

I understood that it is theory, much better thinking now that after spending the money and don't get what I/we wanted....have I done that with my transfer case:)

Happy io

bob_oz
bob_oz's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 31/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #91
auto trans box

Claude io wrote:

I understood that it is theory, much better thinking now that after spending the money and don't get what I/we wanted....have I done that with my transfer case:)

Happy io

 

you modified an auto transfer box? there are several guys with auto ios who may be interested

.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 11/10/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #92
auto transfer case

I modified the transfer case from an auto instead of the manual....and yes I feel very good about this...not :)

The case can take the low gear, but I am only selling the mostly complete transfer case, not the low gear (to be fitted on my car later on)

Here is the add

http://pajerio.com/forum/modified-casing-auto-transfer-case

Anyone interested...make an offer....

simmo777
simmo777's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 01/11/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #93
Useless!!??

koos990 wrote:

I am also lookign for lockers, the LSD is useless.

I can't comprehend how you find it useless!! It has given my IO the edge in a lot of different occasions out 4wdring and I can't complain or fault it because it literally has worked prime! yes

Sorry to hear your experiences were so bad with it :S Could you explain what you mean by useless???

2002 5dr Pajero IO QA 2.0L Auto - Lifted, Locked!! 1.925 Low Range - Muddies (205/80/16) - Redback Extractors to 200cell cat to dump at diff Exhaust 

koos990
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/10/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #94
Regarding LSD -

double post ...deleted...

koos990
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/10/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #95
Regarding LSD -

Regarding LSD - useless

Sorry I was just being negative, yes the LSD does help, BUT it is useless when you actually needs it. It only helps as long as you have traction in both rear wheels. The Torsen (Torque Sensing) only works by applying Torque from one wheel to the other. Thus if the Rear Right wheel is just just touching the ground then you apply almost 0 Nm to the Left wheel, thus you are STUCK and rear right wheel spinning asiff you have open diff because 0.05 Nm x 100 Nm = useless.

In my opinion LSD is only usefull in Mud, snow, sand, where you have both rear wheels on the ground, and sorry to say this, but for this we have 4WD, the 4WD superceeds the LSD function as the front wheels help pull you through, yes the LSD would help,

Yes with LSD you have options such as using the handbrake to increase torque on the spinning wheel. I have done this many times, Does not alwyas work and very difficult to operate 4x4 and handbrake in technical off roading.

Have a look at the picture below from the link. You would notice the rear is not that high in the air and notice the rear wheel spinning making the LSD useless. He got stuck very easily. If you dont use your IO for Cross Axle situations you would not have this problem. But for serious offroading this is a huge problem - basically the LSD ONLY WORK as long as BOTH rear wheels have SOLID grip.

http://www.m1911.org/pinin.htm

Note: we have a Torsen LSD, it does not function the same as clutch-type lock LSD's. It only apply Torque (resitance from ground) from one wheel to the other, so if the one wheel is spinning the Torque in the lifted wheel is zero (or very small at least because there is no resitance on that wheel). Thus why the handbrake trick works. You apply resitance, but note you also apply resitance to the non-spinning wheel, so you have to overcome the braking force etc.

Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #96
Kaiser lockers

The Pinin referred on the link you posted is mine, i was the first and until now the only pinin in Greece (perhaps in Europe too?) . Pantelis is the distributor here in Greece and for the last year he has almost discontinued the sales of kaiser lockers due to complaigns and "false advertising". The posts tell most of the story, the issue has many aspects and is quite complicated... i can provide you with feedback if you want, i have them on for 2 years now... in very few words, on tarmac terrible, transformed to extreme worst, on wet tarmac/snow it is dangerous, on mud you have zero steering (also dangerous), and yes it totally cancels out SS. In 2H everything is turning, CV's, axles, gears, transfer box, drive chain, etc... it's like having a part-time 4x4 without hub wheels. Yes it helps a lot in certain situations but for the rest 99% of the time it's a pain in the ass.

koos990
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/10/2012
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #97
Thanks to all for the

Thanks to all for the info.

Okay so the Kaiser is expensive and only advised in the front (if selectable 2wd) and even thou we can select 2wd the shafts will turn and wear on items and most likely increase in fuel consumption as more parts are turning, small increase but nevertheless.

This together that most of the time locked diffs are required when uphill and as more weight shifitng to the back - I am going to concentrate on the Rear only. I was hoping the front Kaiser would be an easy no hassle addition, but with all the drawbacks back to the drawing board.

 

Rear Selectable Lockers:

We know ARB makes selectable lockers for the IO, but I am not yet convinced this is the answer for me (very expensive).

I came across this website, it seems he build his own selectable Rear locker, the Vern-o-Lock: http://www.vernco.com/RearAxle4/

Yes I do agree if I dont have a machine shop this seems rather expensive to make. But this is a good option I believe. Maybe someone have a machine shop and can make a couple of these ..., should reduce costs ??

Apart from ARB, have anyone tried any of the following:

Ox-Locker http://www.ox-usa.com/

Jack McNamara Differential Specialist:    http://www.mcnamaradiffs.com.au/products.html

Glen
Glen's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 07/03/2011
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #98
No you are correct, the stock

No you are correct, the stock LSD is pretty usless!, it helps a little with the std size tires, but with 31s it almost feels like an open diff due to the larger moment arm acting on it.

I have changed my mind on the locker id prefer for my iO and I agree a safer locker option especially for the iO would be nice, but im not sure what everyone gets so uptight about the Kaiser for, it works exactly as anyone with half a brain would expect.
1 wheel and ONLY 1 wheel can turn faster than the Diff (dive speed) NONE can turn slower.  The problem with this is that the Inside wheel is the driving wheel, and the inside wheel is the one with the least traction!
This can of course a huge problem if when half way through a bend at high speed the inside wheel looses traction. 
With a standard open diff in this situation the only thing that happens is driving force from the back end is lowered as the inside wheel spins and the over all traction on the rear is potentially increased as the torque to the outside wheel decreases,, (outside wheel has most of the weight from the car)

But with a kaiser it instantly turns into a locked diff, and even worse id imagine it could constantly lock and unlock through a bend. Ill be installing.

There are other auto locker options that will not instantly turn into a locker during this kind of driving, an I am considering giving them a try, but they are not available for the front! :( so its either 8" conversion to run one of these lockers, or stick with the kaiser on the 7.25" 

The kaiser is still a MUCH better choice than a Detroit IMO tho, they are much happier to unlock (freewheel the faster wheel) and dont snap things like a detroit.

Pinin on the rocks
Pinin on the rocks's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 08/01/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #99
The problem is not with the

The problem is not with the Kaiser itself, but with the way automatic lockers are operating, all have similar drawbacks. On auto transmission im 100% sure they work like a charm, having constant load, but with manual everytime you take your foot off the pedal and pushing it again, especially during cornering, everything sounds and works terrible. I shot a small video showing some of its operation, it''s worth watching it all... one of the effects i'm describing and im afraid puts too much stress on the shafts/bearings is at 5:10 & 7:20

 

http://youtu.be/MiWVdYqsDG8

Montero IO Gibraltar
Montero IO Gibraltar's picture
  • Online Status: Offline
  • Joined: 21/10/2013
  • Posts:
  • Post Number: #100
Kasier Lockers

Any feedback on the Kasier lockers, anyone who has installed one ?? im looking to get a front locker but after reading about it i would like to know from anyone who has installed it how its working

Build Thread: 2" Spring Lift, Full custom built underbody protection, 235.65.16 Cooper A/T, 2" wheel spacers, Side Exhaust !  

Syndicate

Syndicate content

Translate This Site Into Your Language