Ignition Coils and Leads Replacement
After the regular oil service couple of days back, the car now has a very prominent misfire. The mechanic did his trouble shooting steps and ran the MUT-II diagnostics and found no error codes. He has confirmed that it needs two coils and a set of leads replaced and quoted me $400 for the entire job including parts.
I am trying to source the parts cheaper and will try to install them as well. (taking it to the mechanic is my back-up plan)
Are these part numbers correct?
Coil: TIC089 and Lead Pack 4314i
I was quoted $260 for two coils and $70 for the leads pack from Supercheap. (wow, those coils are expensive!)
I was going through the workshop manual and one of the pre-steps include removing the resonance tank. I think my car's air intake pipe is directly connected to the throttle body. Couldn't find the resonance tank (or I must be looking at the wrong thing)
Also, the workshop manual says, the firing order is 1, 3, 4, 2. I believe we have to connect the coils and leads in the same order? Question is, which one is 1? The one nearest to the front of the car or the one nearest to the rear of the car (near to the firewall)?
Will be my first time doing something on this car. :)
Would really appreciate some advice on this.
Thanks,
Sidds
Thanks for the reply
Thanks for the reply fordem.
It's a '99 1.8 5sp manual Pajero IO. So I think it's the 4G93 SOHC engine? Anyway I can eliminate which coil is at fault? (Don't have a multimeter at home, but I can source one if needed.)
Its giving a misfire, specially on load (with AC on). I could feel the misfire accelerating normally through the gears (2nd and 3rd prominently) and also on idle at the traffic lights with the AC on.
Thanks for the tip as well... I should replace them one by one so I know the exact order how they were placed originally.
Also, do we have a shaft length of 140 or 126?
Cheers,
Sidds
This is the picture of the
This is the picture of the engine: http://i.imgur.com/kUAtM.jpg
It is the 4G93 SOHC right? I have been referring to books to find the engine number. :|
The spark plugs were changed in November last year. Car has been driven approx 200kms since then. When I took it for servicing day before yesterday they confirmed the plugs are fine. (Wouldn't hurt to get the copper plugs and try it out though).
I was thinking of firing up the engine and disconnect the plugs connecting to the coils one by one. Opening whichever coil does not affect how the engine is running/idling should be the faulty coil? Would that method work?
Thanks.
Edit: Added info about spark plug change.
All I can say is that it's SOHC
Disconnecting the coils one by one will only produce a result if the coil is completely non functional - which I don't think is the case here, you mentioned it being noticeable whilst accelerating or under load, a dead coil would be noticeable any time the engine is running.
I do get the misfire on idle
I do get the misfire on idle as well. More prominent if I turn the AC on.
So for example, if I just sit at the lights on neutral with the AC on the misfire is more prominent. If I turn the AC off, I can still feel the misfire but not as prominent as it was under load from the AC.
Cheers,
Sidds
coil pack
Back from fishing....
Yes it does look like the 4G93. From your mechanics, you may have a faulty spark plug, faulty lead or faulty coil pack. Start by checking all plug, if one have a different colour (the end bit) this won't tell you the fault but you will know where is the problem....
Removing one lead at the time can work but I think that it could damage your car electronics, anyway because of the coil pack you only have 2 lead as, I think, that the coil pack is connected directly on one plug, then one lead go to the other. The 1342 firing order is no use here....only two lead :)
Start by the cheaper, put 4 new plugs (keep the other for next replacement....), if it doesn't work replace the lead (new one won't hurt anyway), if it still doesn't work buy only one coil pack, not two, as they look to be the same (check with Mitsubishi), replace one and ....if it still doesn't work put back the old coil pack and put your new one to replace the other old one....
If you are short in money, this engine is (I think) the same as the Lancer, and a visit to the wrecker should have you find a cheap coil pack...
Happy io....
Good tips Claud IO. :) Let me
Good tips Claud IO. :)
Let me start from scratch with the spark plugs tomorrow and eliminate one part at a time.
You are correct, the two coils are directly connected to the plugs and then the leads connect to the other. Any idea which lancer does the engine specs match with? Most of the Supercheap and Repco spent forever trying to trace a Pajero IO in their system... :|
coil pack
I am not sure that the Lancer have the same coil pack but some have the same engine, 1.6 or 1.8 or 2.0 yours is the 1.8, mentioned 4g93. Instead of going to supercheap, go to repco or autopro (in general, better mechanical knowledge from service), and talk to them about the possibility to a match with the Lancer (take you car with you...)
Happy io
Looks like I managed to fix
Looks like I managed to fix it :)
Didn't have a torque wrench or a spark plug gap adjuster tool, so thought of going with the lead wires first.
Went and picked up a set of leads. put them on...and bingo. (I think) the misfire is gone. Can't feel it while driving or idling with the AC and headlights on. Car can easily take a corner on third gear now at low rpms, which it used to shudder before forcing us to take them on second. When idling at set of lights, the RPM needle is constant, no jumping around all over the dial. Acceleration feels smoother and more responsive. Reversing the car very slowly doesn't require me to clutch in or speed up.
The Mrs seems to be really happy and could feel the difference straight away (it's her car). Not sure if the problem is indeed gone or just a placebo effect in our head :P
Will drive around for some time, and if it comes back, I'll order a coil :)
Thanks for the help again Fordem and Claud IO, much appreciated :)
Time to find where the transfer case is to locate the 4WD operation switches and fix the flashing orange.
Transfer case is directly below the transfer shift lever.
Good to hear you got it fixed - and for a lot less than the mechanic wanted to charge.
A flashing amber light is supposed to alert you that either the VCU is locked when it shouldn't be (lever in 2H or 4H), or not locked when it should be (lever in 4HLc or 4LLc) - my guess is either a defective switch (one of two) or a broken wire (this was my problem).
Slide underneath and find the transfer case switch connectors - two on one side, three on the other - look for brown connectors. Disconnect the switch from the harness and connect a meter between the switch lead & the transfer case - both switches should give you continuity in 4HLc or 4LLc and an open circuit in 2H or 4H.
If the switches are good, the next step is to remove the driver's seat & pull the carpet back to reach the indicator controller, unplug it and repeat the test (with the switches connected of course), ,let me know if you need the pin number for this step (no brown connectors).
Thanks fordem. Yes $72
Thanks fordem. Yes $72 instead of $400!! It wouldn't hurt to get an expert's opinion on the fix though. But I don't want to take it back to the mechanic...need to find a new one I guess :\
I have to pick up a multi meter and learn how to use it. Will create a thread on fixing the flashing amber light and ask you questions as I come along.
We did take it to Mitsubishi and they couldn't get any error codes out. Mentioned something about replacing the solenoids and switches might fix the problem because the 4wd is operating normally apart from that flashing amber.
With 2H selected, on idle, the flashing amber's interval is long. But while driving around, the flashing is quite fast and you have to strain to see that it's actually flashing and not staying constantly lit like it should.
Cheers,
Sidds
I'm not impressed with your Mitsubishi dealer
I would have figured that the Mitsubishi dealer would have known - you can't get error codes from that controller - it's not even wired to the diagnostic port - but then, I've seen a lot of misinformation posted on the internet about the SuperSelect 4WD system, so it seems that not many people understand how it works.
For now, just make sure it's in 2H and the "front wheel indicators" (the top two green lights) are off, and you'll be fine - even if the VCU is locked, as long as the front axle is freewheeling you won't damage anything.
Lol :P Well, they need to
Lol :P Well, they need to earn the quick buck through us :)
This was an official Mitsubishi service centre (not the mechanic who quoted me $400 for the miss-fire). Showed them the flashing amber light and they booked us in for an error code scan for $100. Then quoted $600 to replace the switch and solenoids :)
On 2H the front wheel indicators are off.
If the switches are under the car, I wouldn't be surprised if they are clogged by dirt/mud and not functioning correctly? I fixed my ABS sensor on the rear wheels of the Mitsubishi FTO by just giving them a clean. They were throwing an error for not detecting data.
Found a quick guide on how to use multi-meter, so should be getting one soon and testing those switches :)
Cheers,
Sidds
Looks like I had been on to
Looks like I had been on to my victory dance a bit early :P
The car was running flawless for a week or so after changing the leads. But recently there's this sudden dip on the rpm needle while idling sometimes. I haven't been able to spend much time on the car, was out of town. So will take it for a drive tomorrow and see if it's the same misfire.
Will keep you guys updated. :)
Been going through all the
Been going through all the manuals but can't seem to find the specs for my engine model. The models I have come across on the manuals are either 6cyl or have coil on plug ignitions instead of the coil and lead combo. :\
Does anyone know what is the standard coil resistance for the coils and leads on a 1.8l 4G93 4cyl SOHC?
Edit:
The only thing I found which was matched the coil and spark system of my car was this: Found it under Pinin 02 folder of the manual collections I downloaded from here. It refers to 2002 M/Y ... shouldn't that be for a 2002 model? :\ Odd that looking at 2001 M/Y they have 4 coil on plug system but went back to the coil/lead combo for 2002.
You may be looking at different engines.
In any given year there were SOHC MPI engines which are the ones with two coil packs, and also DOHC GDI engines which have four coil packs, some countries got one type of engine, some got the other - I think the manuals on this website are for the European market production, however they have so far been close enough to the Japanese domestic production that I've been able to use them on my car.
Its a Minefield
There are a lot of variations in engines, and possibly even between engines which you would think are the same. As an indication of this, I was looking at the NGK plugs guide and found that what they recommend for my car (which I think is the same as yours - I have a 1999 1.8l 4G93 SOHC non-GDI) is different to what Repco gave me, and different again from what was in it from the previous owner. The NGK guide has two different plug types listed for the SOHC non-GDI engine, depending on year - '98 to '01 is BKR5E-KUD, '02 onwards is the cooler BKR6E-KUD.
After replacing my plugs (I finally went with NGK BKR5E-11 plugs, which had been previously installed in it) my misfire has completely gone so I have no reason to think my leads are faulty. I measured the resistance of them and posted that in this thread earlier, so you could see if your measurements are similar to mine.
Yeah, tried finding an exact
Yeah, tried finding an exact match with the manuals but either the year/model or the engine specs never matched up.
I don't know if I should even call it a misfire. It's not behaving like it was previously before I changed the leads. The car's (sometimes) RPM needle drops in couple of hundred RPM while the engine is idling for a fraction of a second, then climbs back to the normal idling position.
@NZIO, sorry couldn't find your post with the resistance info. Could you please direct me to it. I think I should have a look at the spark plugs. Not sure which plugs did the mechanic use during the service. My car's model is a 1999 1.8l 4G93 SOHC non GDI as well. (The cover reads Mitsubishi Valve, which I have found matches their engine models which have 16 Valve MPI )
While am waiting on the resistance, I might go pick up some injector cleaner additive. Mrs doesn't use high octane on her car, so the rough idling can also be a fuel injection issue.
Need to grab a torque wrench to actually try and diagnose the spark plugs. :\
Thanks again guys :)
sorry couldn't find your post with the resistance info
Here is the link to Nzio post http://www.pajerio.com/forum/bosch-ignition-lead-sale
Happy io
May or may not be ...
I don't know if I should even call it a misfire. It's not behaving like it was previously before I changed the leads. The car's (sometimes) RPM needle drops in couple of hundred RPM while the engine is idling for a fraction of a second, then climbs back to the normal idling position.
It most likely is a misfire - but - there is a possibility that the momentary dip in rpm is caused by a change in the engine loading - for example an electrical (or other) load energizing, the engine rpms drop and the ECU brings it back to spec.
I don't know if you've ever seen a car sitting idling at an intersection with the turn signal flashing and the idle rpms varying up & down as the turn signal goes off and on - that is just an example.
Yeah I had thought of that as
Yeah I had thought of that as well. The indicator for example doesn't draw enough constant power for the alternator to kick in and stabilize the current/rpm to compensate for it like it would for an AC.
Last time, before I changed the coils, I could even feel the misfire while accelerating. It had a prominent knock while accelerating from a set of lights. Don't have that any more. Acceleration is smooth. I only get the RPM dips 'sometimes'. I know the brakelight is always on when am idling to test this. (Either I have my handbrake on or the footbrake engaged.) Could be that as well. :\
I will test the resistance on both the coils and the leads this weekend and tally it with the data from NZIO.
Thanks fordem :)
Where did you get the GDI
Where did you get the GDI FORDOM?
I have been through 3 coils in my IO, the "cheap" $130 Repco coil only lasted about 6 months! maybe due to the fact i bought the one with the leads that are to short, I just wend to pick a part and polled some from a lancer and all is well again,,, for now.
Im going to make a mount and put whatever plugs are required to run soe much cheaper coils in future tho, summit racing has heaps of coils to choose from that im sure would be better and cheaper.
maybe something like this? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-140017/overview/
I'm not certain what the question is here ...
Where did I get the GDI?
Where did I get the GDI igntion coils from? They are the original coils that were on the vehicle when I bought it.
Where did I get the GDI vehicle from? It's just a used JDM vehicle that I picked up locally - we get a lot of used JDM vehicles here, maybe 60% or so of the cars on the roads are imported used mostly from Japan and occasionally Singapore.
With regard the ignition coils - you need to make sure you get one with the ignitor transistor built into the coil, and compatible with your ECU, the Accel coil that you linked to most likely does not.
Similar experience here
Similar experience here too
Hi Sidds, had the same issues as you with my 4g93 sohc around 2 years or so. Symptoms were identical.
Replaced coils with cheap eBay coils. Car never ran better yay, and then a couple of weeks passed and the missfiring problem returned again. This time I went to the local mitsi wreckers and purchased Lancer CE coils, I believe they were off a 4g94. Anyways that was a long time ago and the car has been perfect since.
Hope that helps :O)
Syndicate
First thing would be to tell us what you're driving.
There are at the very least, five (5) different engines used on the Pajero iO - which one do you have?
I would suggest you ignore the firing order and simply note the way the original coils are fitted and connect the new ones in the same manner. Two coils suggests what is known as "wasted spark", in which case you're firing two plugs at a time, most likely #1 with #4 & #2 with #3.
Last thing - it's highly unlikely that both coils will fail simultaneously - find another mechanic & get a second opinion.
Oh - #1 is the front cylinder.