Pajero io fitted with low gearing 2.85
awesome!!
very awesome
I cannot understand why the shaft is shorter by that much - mine was short BUT the seal definitley ran on the shaft, it just leaked due to the burring etc, looks like the marks shaft is shorter again..
feels like 2 gears lower now? the 1:1.925 feels 1 gear lower that standard
seal
it's weird - my V seal made full conact with the shaft however the scoring is why it leaked - it was 3-4mm shorter to the io shaft which appears the same on your photos.
the surface was very important hence the 45mm speedysleeve to repair the buring
85% lower is huge, that's potentially moving the torque damage to somewhere, at least at high rpm in a taller gear you're more likely to spin a tyre, at low rpm at a crawler gearset heaps more torque available now but low speed makes lifting and spinning a tread a lot less likely.
I hope you've got a standard clutch in there and not a sport HD one...
.
[quote=bob_oz]
it's weird - my V seal made full conact with the shaft however the scoring is why it leaked - it was 3-4mm shorter to the io shaft which appears the same on your photos.
Not sure what to say....maybe a different brand of seal ? Not sure. On my original T/C the groove was 5 mm in, the new shaft about 3 mm shorter, leaving 2 mm available but 1 mm of that have an edge (on the end of the shaft) leaving me with only 1 mm to have the lip of the seal to go on the shaft. I was going to do what you have done and add the spacer, even bought the speedy sleeve ! but I change my mind at the last minute and used the spacer only. I mean my shaft is new and didn't need any repair, yours did. Doesn't matter, none are leaking.
the surface was very important hence the 45mm speedysleeve to repair the buring
Fully agree
85% lower is huge, that's potentially moving the torque damage to somewhere, at least at high rpm in a taller gear you're more likely to spin a tyre, at low rpm at a crawler gearset heaps more torque available now but low speed makes lifting and spinning a tread a lot less likely.
I hope you've got a standard clutch in there and not a sport HD one...
Yes it is huge but only because the car wasn't design for it, some 4x4 have even lower gearing that what I have now. Lots of common sense will have to be used here, including gentle right foot.
I do have a HD clutch, but so is the original one that was replaced. Not sure/ no idea if the clutch is a reliable safety anyway. Yes chances of more breakage are real, but I will also have a lot more fun too :). I will deal with broken bits when they come. If I get broken bits at every outing, I still have my original T∕C to go back to.
Happy io
Good way
Being the proud owner of the first 2,85 gears set installed in Pinin 2 years ago i would say it's a great mod especially for larger tyres, i'm glad i helped :) Not that 1.92 gears ever left me without power but the transision to 2.85 actually give 1 shorter gear compared to original 1.54. Since 1st gear with original 1.54 low gears is exactly the same as 2nd gear with 2.85, this modification actually gives us only 1 extra low 1st gear compared to OEM factory gears. Expencive price to pay for just one gear but that's why we are crazy about car mods :)
It seemed you got the last set available, there are no more in stock and their price just rised 40% with 3 month waiting time if pre-ordered.
Enjoy them with lot of offroading! :)
thanks
Thanks, oh yes ! you did help, I had no idea that it could be done....I did mine without the welding and I hope that it will be ok.
Gosh, I am glad that I got my gear a couple of years ago, 40 % rise is a bit much. A couple of years ago you mentioned the price and it was twice what I paid for mine at the time. I think that their freight cost might be exaggerated. I can check the price from here if you want.
Happy io
Just check regularly and if
Just check regularly and if it passes the 1.000 miles test it will probably be ok for long time. Have in mind that lower gears spin much less when the car travels compared to higher gears, so no extra rpm, heat, etc.
I'm not reffering to the freight cost, just the actual buying cost, couple of months ago the availability and cost changed just for the specific set, i guess it;s because it;s a very old set of gears and sold last sets.
Price
OH yes, I do check regularly, I got my head under the car twice a day !!
How much did they quoted you. I paid mine $1100 a couple of year ago. From memory you wrote somewhere that you got yours around the same time for $1500, was it freight included then ?
I understood that the lower gear spin less when driving on road. I have driven on an easy track in my new low gear for about 500 m a couple of time and it seems ok. I have done about 600km on road, without drama. I will change the oil soon to check. I will test it a bit more later on, on tougher condition with some towing vehicle close by if needed (and video camera!)
Thanks
Happy io
EDIT
I just found where you talked prices, once $1500, once close to $2000 post 33 and 35 here
http://pajerio.com/forum/change-lowrange-gearing-1548-1925-delica-parts
maybe different exchange rate ?
No, i have paid $ 1.200 AUD,
No, i have paid $ 1.200 AUD, the same as they were couple of months ago, now they have $ 1.600 AUD. All other prices for other mits models have remained the same, even for the same set but for A/T/. Obviously the cost of remanufacturing new sets have changed since they had produced years ago the sets that have been sold.
cost of gear
That just add more value to our car then ! If the way I got mine modified (no welding ) does hold, it will make it cheaper to do and will compensate the jump in price. I will check with the person that machined mine if they could do the modification without completely dismantled the transfer case. You said in post 33 (link below) that you were making your own 1.95 in Greece, couldn't you make the 2.85 instead of getting it from Mark adaptor in Australia ?
http://pajerio.com/forum/change-lowrange-gearing-1548-1925-delica-parts
Happy io
We made our own 1,92 in
We made our own 1,92 in Greece but didn't last and their cost was very high compared to their quality, after i found out that original mitsubishi 1,925 and 1,944 gears from older models fit and cheaper, no reason to bother manufacturing new ones. Manufacturing lower than 1,9 gears is very expensive and of questionable quality, so reliability is more of importance here, for getting just one lower gear more people stick to 1,92 with 200 cost instead of 1000. One old set we manufacture broke while offroading and car stuck in mountain, not ideal situation.
Syndicate
Low gearing 2.85 fitted
Ok I am not sure where to start.....!!
it will be good to point that without this forum, this would have not be possible
I kown, bloody long post, but trust me the making of this mod was a bit longer :)
In 2013 I bought a transfer case from an auto to train myself to dismantle it. The modification to fit the bigger gear required that the T∕C to be fully dismantle. I used the manual 22D for reference, the number after some name will help locate what is what, and you might need it to fully follow up. I might put a picture of it later on. I assumed that you all have read previous thread about this work and other ratio. http://pajerio.com/forum/change-lowrange-gearing-1548-1925-delica-parts. Post 67 and 70 have what our Grec friends have done
When I started to work on it, I got carry away and I started to get the casing of that T/C modified, when all finished and ready for testing....OOPS it doesn't fit my manual car (that T/C was from an auto). I felt like a clown that waisted time, money..... if only I looked under the car for 2 min !!! BIG deception here ....
Anyway.....with that T∕C I went to see a couple of shop to do the welding, all told me the same story, the casing will bend. I choose a engineer that built completely a small plane and a dragster car that he showed me, enough for me to be sure that he knew what he was doing. Once the welding was done, a small amount of bending was present. Once tight/close the transfer case plate (47) would bend against the casing and would change the internal dimension and over tight the counter gear (50). To rectified this we agreed to machine the flange of the casing to get it nice and flat again. To compensate the machined thickness I made a paper gasket and machined the thrust washer (48) to have the perfect clearance for the counter gear. Then after some more thinking (I didn't liked the paper gasket too much) I was going to make a copper or alloy spacer/gasket instead.
I got told that the welding can, rarely, let the oil go through and I used epoxy glue on the inside to make sure it didn't happen.
In order to have the hi-lo clutch sleeve (51) to move all the way on the bigger new gear, the hi-lo shift fork (53) had to be grinded. If you fit the 1.94 or other bigger gear make sure that the hi-lo clutch sleeve slide properly on the "new" gear, it is not obvious if it doesn't.
Some of the snap ring (59, 1, 5 ) can be hard to remove and they can loose their shape but they can be put back in shape in a vice.
This is when I got under my car, removed the drive shaft and started to unbolt my T∕C....OOPS....doesn't fit :)
After a while I thought, I have the gear, and it will be a waste not to try to use them. As I did spend a bit of money getting the above work done, I wanted to give it another try but without spending too much. This is when I bought a rolled MANUAL !! io. I kept the transfer case with many other parts too and sold a few parts to a few of you, this able me to get a "free" T/C. This is the car http://pajerio.com/forum/pajero-io-zr-wrecking
I got this MANUAL T∕C dismantled, took it to the same engineer and with a couple of other people try to see the best approached to do that welding without bending the casing and what to do if it does, and keep things as reliable as possible. I made a plate from a 6 mm thick steel plate to bolt on the casing to try to hold the shape of it during the welding. My idea was to do a spot welding, let it cool and start again, I got told that if the aluminum welding fail it it 99% of the time at the beginning and at the end of the welding, several spot weld would increase the risk of problem. So we choose to get the welding done while keeping the whole casing hot and check after. The next step offered was to shave the casing if needed, make an alloy spacer laser cut to compensate, all properly measure that is. So I left it to them, mentioning that they could do the work when they have the time, to keep the price low for me and told them that if they think of another better way to go ahead.
After a few week I got a call asking me to come to have a look at a new option. They found out that the 2.85 gear could maybe fit without having to machine the casing that far that it will need to be welded after. It is good to know that no welding mean no bending, no spacer no nothing :) So they gave it a try and the machining removed about half of the about 4 mm of the thickness of the casing, and have a clearance of half a mm between the casing (machined then) and the new 2.85 gear.
This have not been done anywhere that I know off and something could later on go wrong because of the way it is done but it costed me $100 ! and if it goes wrong (crack where it is thinner for example) I still have the other option (welding +) it will only cost me more time. Since I can dismantle the T∕C nearly with my eyes closed now !! I call it a big win and a great discovery. If it work it may even be done without dismantling the whole T/C
When fitting the T/C, the first test fit was a bit tight, I found that one of the guide between the T/C and gearbox was a bit out of shape. But I could see that the grease that I put on the input shaft of the T/C wasn't moved by the seal from the output shaft of the gear box....hum.... While the shaft from the new gear is about 3 mm shorter the old shaft was showing some wear on the 5 mm, so I assumed that the seal will seat 2 mm on the new shorter shaft. See Bob thread http://pajerio.com/forum/diy-how-install-11925-low-range-gears and how he repaired his leak here . It took me a while to understand as no matter how I measured it should be at least 1.5 mm on the shaft. What happen is that the lip of the seal does flex a bit before ending up on his final position, the about 2 mm was just enough to flex the lip of the seal but not enough to make it pass on the shaft. I was going to put a speedy sleeve and let it extend the shaft a bit as Bob did for his http://pajerio.com/forum/change-lowrange-gearing-1548-1925-delica-parts?... post 143 but I fitted a 2 mm thick spacer at the back of the seal, and glued the seal with the strongest epoxy araldite
This T/C is now on my car, I was a bit shaky to try it ! but so far so good, the area where the new gear is is a bit bit warmer but I still can leave my hand on it without a problem, I mean if you can hold it with bare skin, it cannot be that hot !
Time will tell,
Happy io
I have taken a few pictures, I have put here just a few to show the mod more than explaining the strip of the T/C.
This is how it started !
One of the new gear, left is the new one, right is the old one
The weld and machining on the inside of the wrong T/C !
Same with the glue on
The outside weld
This is my latest machining, NO weld needed :)
Shaft from the original gear, you can see the groove from the old seal
The new gear with the shorter shaft
Left is the spacer made from the grinded old seal ! on the right is the washer on the back of the seal
The 2 mm thick spacer
The seal glue in place, the spacer and washer are behind the seal. I glue it because the total thickness of the seal is 7 mm, having 2 mm less to hold, I glue it to make sure it doesn't move.
After lifting by hand the T/C I choose to save my back and used a jack, a strap, and a rope ! to slowly put it in place
The strap from the inside
My io is now SOLD Thankshttp://pajerio.com/forum/claudes-io-2002-zr-built-thread-onlyhappy-io