Lift options & Tires sizes, Look here first
Due to all the interest in lifting the Pajero IO, I think its a good idea to have a sticky.
Im no expert, this is what I have gathered from my trawling of the internet, please correct me and make additions.
Options:
Edit: It seems the KYB do NOT give a 25mm lift, this seems to be an urban myth. If anyone has evidence of unmodified KYB struts with raised spring perches please let us know.
25mm lift: Good for getting bigger tires and some off road use. The Standard IO struts do not allow for the fitment of larger tires as the spring perch is in the way. KYB replacement struts have the spring perch 25mm higher resulting in a 25mm lift plus the ability to fit up to some 29" tires. This information seems to be false
50mm lift: . There are a couple of options here. As above, The Standard IO struts do not allow for the fitment of larger tires. KYB replacement struts have the spring perch 25mm higher resulting in a 25mm lift. you can add either longer springs or a spacer above the strut to take care of the other 25mm required to give a 50mm lift. neither option will give you anymore travel in the front without changing the shock insert (I dont know of available inserts)Edit, Koni make some good replacment incerts. I do not know the specks on them or if they offer any more travel though.
50mm and up.
100mm lift: Anything over 50mm will require a diff drop / "body lift" in the front due to the IFS CV joint angles. The lift proses will be the same whatever height you want. Probably the most reasonable to get a nice look and gain some clearance, large tires and a little more off road use. Will consist of cutting and re-welding the spring perch on the STD or KYB struts along with taller springs and spacers up front to get your desired lift height. and custom rear coil springs. You also need new rear shocks now to accommodate more travel, Im not sure what the best option here is, But custom fitting some adjustable ranchos with EYE to EYE ends is my plan. You will also need drop brackets for the front sway bar if your IO runs them, or remove them altogether, the older models don't have them on the rear. You will also need to check and adjust your steering UNI to accommodate the body lift. Im not 100% sure but i think anything up to 100mm will worth without lengthening parts (Ill let you know soon) or better yet someone can fill in all the MANY blanks i have left :)
It will also require a longer Panhard rod, either lengthen the stock one or use a custom, preferably an adjustable custom one.
Custom coilovers are another option for all lift heights, and the option I am taking. They have the advantage of smaller diameter springs and spring perches meaning tire size will never be limited by the struts them self. They will also accommodate any shock/ travel length that will physically fit in the strut. The down side is they are expensive! Unless you are an engineer and can make them yourself as I am doing.
A wheel alignment is recommended with all options & Longer brake lines will be required for lifts of 50mm or more.
an easy and cheap way to gain
an easy and cheap way to gain height is to cut the spring perch and palce it 3 mm higher.
for more height you and for not loose any of the travel you should either place spacers or make the mcpherson longer by cuting it and placing a pipe as long as you have moved the plate perch, in between.of course that means that you should change the absorber with a bilstein or koni
Koni or Bilsteins for Pajero IO
an easy and cheap way to gain height is to cut the spring perch and palce it 3 mm higher.
for more height you and for not loose any of the travel you should either place spacers or make the mcpherson longer by cuting it and placing a pipe as long as you have moved the plate perch, in between.of course that means that you should change the absorber with a bilstein or koni
3mm? or 30mm?
This is a good idea! adding Xmm of pipe to make up for the amount you raise the spring perch. It is not something i had thought of, You would also need to put a spacer of the same length under the strut insert also? Or as you say, use a longer koni or bilstein shock instead/ aswel?
I did see some pictures somewhere (ill have to find them) of Koni shocks been installed. I think you must drill a hole in the bottom of the strut and bolt them in from the bottom rather than screw them down from the top as with most struts.
This is due to the fact you out Pajero IO struts are sealed and we must cut the top off to fit aftermarket shocks.
There would be no need for extra pipe to be welded on with that style of strut insert. Im not sure if they give extra travel to make up for the raised spring perch tho?
What is the travel of the Stock shocks and what is the travel of Koni or Bilstien shocks? And what is there damping valving?
sorry i meant 30 mm..in that
sorry i meant 30 mm..in that case you could place a spacer at the bottom(same size 30mm) to gain those 30mm travel back.same for more 40mm or 50mm...or find a longer shock as you said and fit it in.there are bilsteins and konis with the travel of the stock shock.thats right with the koni shocks you mast drill a hole under to bolt them and if you re going to need a spacer it depends on how much you ll lift the car.i also made coilovers with koni heavy truck inside and they perform great.i can t remember the stock travel right now but i ll get back to you for that
Hello from South
Hello from South Africa,
I'm also a fellow IO driver but the normal 2000 IO 1.6 3dr version. I read thru the post and saw you guys mentioned fitment of the front and rear locker. Not being an expert on the IO, can you please explain how the front locker will be fitted seeing there is no diff? I only got side shafts running out of my transfer case at the front and a independent diff at the rear? Does the TR4 have an independent diff at the front as well making it possible to fit the locker?
Hey mate, welcome aboard!The
Hey mate, welcome aboard!
The iO does have a front diff, its just not a solid axle like the rear. Most "real" 4x4 with Independent front suspension just have the diff center mounted to the chassis.
Here is pic from the iO manual Bob Oz provided here http://www.pajerio.com/forum/pajero-io-workshop-manual-complete-zip-file showing the front diff setups we have.
workshop manual
Hey mate, welcome aboard!
The iO does have a front diff, its just not a solid axle like the rear. Most "real" 4x4 with Independent front suspension just have the diff center mounted to the chassis.
Here is pic from the iO manual Bob Oz provided here http://www.pajerio.com/forum/pajero-io-workshop-manual-complete-zip-file showing the front diff setups we have.
I tried downloading the manual but its all in Japanese rather than english
Thats awesome, I never knew
Thats awesome, I never knew that and I scrawled underneath my io in a couple of times before. So it will be possible to fit a locker on the normal IO'? To be honest I've never seen the actual "spider gears" setup as shown in the pictures above. I have a picture that I took of my undercarrage but cant see the setup as you have shown?
Good evening, iO/Pinin/TR4
Good evening, iO/Pinin/TR4 entusiasts...
First post here, but been quite active on brazilian forum www.4x4brasil.com.br
Just had my 2006 Pajero TR4 lifted with 3" with front tcnyl/nylon shims and rear shims+longer springs
That's the result, side-by-side with my original 2011 Pajero TR4
Well, I konw I'll have to make my panhard a little longer (car is slightly misaligned on the rear axle)
But, what worries me.... I'll have to get a diff drop.... the CV joints are free but working with a huge angle, and worse, my tie rods are both wet (grease?) and I think they won't last too much....
Anyone with the same problems?
Thanks in advance,
Daniel, from Brazil
Hi, Fielies
Hi, Fielies
You meant the spacers? Man, i'm not native english, so it took me some time looking around just to realize that it was a typo... LOL
Yes, the pic were taken when it was all still loose...
Thanks for your kind words... The height is superb, but I'm still working on how to drop my front differential...
Cheers!
front diff drop
We talk a bit regarding the drop of the front diff, it is a bit everywhere! I have found that one and that might give you some idea
http://www.pajerio.com/forum/front-diff-drop
Yes, some pictures are from....Brazil....unreal what you have to do to try to modify that car...
The grease might be because your lift made a to big angle, and have made the seal to come out. I think that 3" without the diff drop is too much. Take note that I am not the best to talk about this field. Without the grease, the tie rod still should last for a short while but I am not sure if it will last long working at that angle. Again, as my wife keep saying...I could be wrong...
Happy io.
Great info!
We talk a bit regarding the drop of the front diff, it is a bit everywhere! I have found that one and that might give you some idea
http://www.pajerio.com/forum/front-diff-drop
Yes, some pictures are from....Brazil....unreal what you have to do to try to modify that car...
The grease might be because your lift made a to big angle, and have made the seal to come out. I think that 3" without the diff drop is too much. Take note that I am not the best to talk about this field. Without the grease, the tie rod still should last for a short while but I am not sure if it will last long working at that angle. Again, as my wife keep saying...I could be wrong...
Happy io.
Wow... Thanks a lot Claud... tht's what I was looking for...
I guess the seals didn't tolerate the new angle.. ,anyway, my TR4 has 80.000km, I bought it at 70.000 and it was FULLY ORIGINAL... so, I'm replacing the parts continuously... the tie rods wuold indeed be the next... But I'l wait until I can drop the diff...
Cheers!
Drop Diff
Finaly, got my diff dropped....
Made myself some nylon/tecnyl spacers and put them on the crossmember mount...
So far, so good...
Welll.... just noticed one thing.... My Super Select light keep flashing... :(
It seems that it's all working fine, I tried all shifts, 4x2, 4x4H, 4x4locked and 4x4low and all seemed to turn on and off well... nut the front axle light keepd flashing when I go to 4x2..... ???
diff drop
He does make it sound too easy!!! "I need a diff drop" in the morning, and done just before lunch:)
I am not sure if the washer are big enough to support all the weight, or properly distribute the weight.... but I have no knowledge about this...do we over do it?
Happy io
Diff drop
He does make it sound too easy!!! "I need a diff drop" in the morning, and done just before lunch:)
I am not sure if the washer are big enough to support all the weight, or properly distribute the weight.... but I have no knowledge about this...do we over do it?
Happy io
LOL, as you say.... I could be wrong....
What do you mean by "washer"?
Some people around here in Brazil have done this way and are more than 40.000km riding with them, still no problems... but we are going to see... ;)
PS... Holy Google translator, Batman.... now I see what you mean by "washers".....
The bas of the crossmember mount that I took the sample size is about 11cmx5cm... they are kept inplace by two 17mm bolts/screws... 55mmlong, 12mm diameter. direct on the suppoort. The spacers are placed beetween the support and the mount, so the original configuration of the screws/bolts remains the same....
Cheers
rear shocks
That's it!!!! he is doing it again!!! TOO EASY!!! We don't have this model in Australia (that I know of) just to check, if you still have the old shock, can you measure it to is maximum and minimum length for us?
I have some toyo on my wife subaru and they are a fantastic tyres.
Sorry, not washer, but spacers!!
Was your light flashing before you install the spacer? you may have disconnected a sensor. We talked about this, somewhere... I will search...
What diameter are your spacer? I have some 41mm nylon rod....
Thanks,
Happy io/tr4...
Rear shocks
That's it!!!! he is doing it again!!! TOO EASY!!! We don't have this model in Australia (that I know of) just to check, if you still have the old shock, can you measure it to is maximum and minimum length for us,
I have some toyo on my wife subaru and they are a fantastic tyres.
Sorry, not washer, but spacers!!
Was your light flashing before you install the spacer? you may have disconnected a sensor. We talked about this, somewhere... I will search...
Thanks,
Happy io/tr4...
;)
I just figured it out... edited the post above..
this is our L200... maybe you got it there with another name? This is the model that we use the rear shocks... 1999-2004... after it became the Triton, If I'm not wrong..
the 4wd lights were not flashing before, but I guess it may be some contacts issue or the sensors... the traction is working fine...
Happy io/Tr4 too!
Nylon rod
I have some 41mm, and I just found 48cm of the 50mm. I used some to make some top roller guide for a very large sliding gate, but I didn't know that it could be used for that. I am going to check with my supplier if it is the good nylon type! I have cut some before using a drop saw, nice and easy:)
Happy io
Hi guys....watching this
Hi guys....watching this thread with a lot of interest. One question and sorry if it sounds abrassive, but it's not intended that way.
Body lift (eg: diff drop, strut spacers etc), is that just for wank factor? Yeah I know I recently lifted my io 2 inches, but how much more is needed?
I lifted mine to allow for bigger tyres. A body lift doesn't get the diffs any further off the ground which effectively then becomes your lowest point.
Maybe I'm missing something....so please, please educate me if I am.
Thanks :)
Fab
Ahhhhh...
First - when you lifted your vehicle - before you fitted larger tires - was there any increase clearance between the rear diff and the road surface? No - the main reason behind lifting the vehicle is to get larger tires underneath it - it is the larger tires that allow greater clearance between the road surface and the differentials.
Depending on the type of construction, you can choose between a spring lift or a body lift - a spring lift uses longer springs or spacers to increase the clearance between the wheel center and the body to allow for the larger wheels - you can do a spring lift on most vehicles, however a body lift can only be done on a vehicle with "body-on-frame" construction - you insert blocks between the body and the frame and this creates more room between the body and the axles to allow larger tires to fit without fouling the body work. Vehicles with unibody or monocoque construction (like the Pajero iO) cannot have a body lift - because the frame and the body are one and the same.
Get the idea now?
Incidentally - a diff drop and a body lift are different things - a diff drop may be needed after a spring lift is done on an indepedent suspension vehicle to reduce the angle that the axles are forced to run at - too much of an angle causes excessive wear on the CV joints, and in extreme circumstances, they break. If you fit a diff drop, you're moving the diff lower, closer to the road, so once again, you need the larger tires to increase the clearance between the diff and the road surface.
Oh OK, I get it. So by
Oh OK, I get it.
So by dropping the front diff, it allows you to achieve a higher lift without stuffing up your steering geometrey and drive shaft angles. Ok that makes sense.
So in order to keep things all level, how much taller can you go in the rear before it started giving you premature tailshaft uni joint wear? Looking at my bus, the tailshaft is pretty short, so every inch taller in the rear changes the driveline angle significantly.
(This is assuming that the front diff drop doesn't alter the position of the transfer case).
Fab.
Any more be any better?
I currenly havea 2" lift achieved by larger springs. I was considering making up something simliar to these to reach 3 or 4. But now I think about it, it wont let me use larger tyres, as its the spring pan that is in the way, and I dont know how much the extra clearence with help as I am finding its my front diff which is getting in the way.
Considering it looks pretty cheap to make up it might be worth trying just for shits and giggles to see if it helps.
how much more is needed?
Hi Fab, how much more is needed? It all depend on what you want to do with your beast. It is true that the lower section of the diff is not going to change by lifting the body (only bigger tyres will lift your diff). Lifting the body will change the approach, break over and departure angle. See the picture below and imagine a short steep bump in front, in the middle and at the rear of the car, the more lift the better (yes, not needed to drive the kids to school!!)
Happy io
Yep Claud ... understand all
Yep Claud ... understand all of that. I was more so interested to hear if any consideration had been given to the angle at which the uni joints on the tailshaft have to work through at the rear. There is very little mention of that on any posts on this site at all, yet on another site I frequent (Explor Oz) there's plenty said about it.
Fab.
BTW.... I'm happy as a pig is $hit at where my io has ended up. Now I just need to do a rim and tyre swap to add extra inches under my diff. I love Glen (Admin's) 245 KM2's on stock rims but don't think they'll fit under my front strut pans. Also, I really don't want to go down the path of using wheel spacers to shift the offset of the rims to clear the front strut tubes. Would prefer to order rims with a suitable offset. Thinking of going Speedy Sunraysia style in black, hopefully 15" jobs if they'll clear the brakes. Got to do a bit more reading up on that though. :)
true...
Hi Fab, how much more is needed? It all depend on what you want to do with your beast. It is true that the lower section of the diff is not going to change by lifting the body (only bigger tyres will lift your diff). Lifting the body will change the approach, break over and departure angle. See the picture below and imagine a short steep bump in front, in the middle and at the rear of the car, the more lift the better (yes, not needed to drive the kids to school!!)
Happy io
Perfect explanation... I know my diff is at exactly the same ground distance. It will change ONLY with bigger tires. But my approach/departure angles are much better, and so is my breakover angle. Today I made a "test drive" in a rocky trail around here and the difference was huge. As we got lots of rocky trails here, we suffer whe thhos angles are small, more than the absolute distance of the ground/differential.
Here goeas a little vide I made today..
I would never pass this rocking climb without a lift.... I got no locker at all...
Cars that didn't make it: a Suzuki Samurai, a Suzuky Jimny, a Toyota Bandeirante (Land Cruiser)...
cars that made it: Pajero GLS V6 with BL and locker, A Samurai with SPOA, and a Jeep Wyllis, besides my TR4...;)
TR4 Subindo na Boi Preto from Sem Loção 4WD on Vimeo.
Diff drop
Have a look I copied some of the diff drop pics into the specific thread, you can post all your updates in there. Please also have a look there is a flashing light thread as well, can you post the pics in there too?
Hi All, took my pinin ( io )
Hi All, took my pinin ( io ) to a pay and play site for the first time yesterday, and was quite impressed as its still standard with road tyres at the moment,
am i reading these posts correctly , is lifting the car as simple as coil spring spacers as long as you dont go too mad maybe 2" would be ok,
that would allow better angles and with bigger tyres would be better offroad.
Andy
longer coils
Hi All, took my pinin ( io ) to a pay and play site for the first time yesterday, and was quite impressed as its still standard with road tyres at the moment,
am i reading these posts correctly , is lifting the car as simple as coil spring spacers as long as you dont go too mad maybe 2" would be ok,
that would allow better angles and with bigger tyres would be better offroad.
Andy
Andy, yes putting in longer coils will lift your body for a better look but will not allow you to fit much bigger tyres because of your strut pan being in the way. Hope this help
Cheers 4 eers
Mate...it aint quite that simple.
Hi All, took my pinin ( io ) to a pay and play site for the first time yesterday, and was quite impressed as its still standard with road tyres at the moment,
am i reading these posts correctly , is lifting the car as simple as coil spring spacers as long as you dont go too mad maybe 2" would be ok,
that would allow better angles and with bigger tyres would be better offroad.
Andy
G'Day Andy,
I thought the same as you. The suspension lift can be done with spacers but fitting bigger tyres requires changing over to the latest version of KYB struts.
Check out my post in the suspension section titled "OK, that sucks, I broke my strut" or words to that effect. It has been a long process through trial and error and has cost me a set of raised springs which are now redundant. The end result for me is good lift (without going silly about it) and extra clearance for some bigger rubber.
Good luck.... and enjoy!
Fab.
Ok, for sure
Have a look I copied some of the diff drop pics into the specific thread, you can post all your updates in there. Please also have a look there is a flashing light thread as well, can you post the pics in there too?
I'll do that....
So many boards to follow..LOL.... I'm getting used to post here... ;)
Cheers!
.
Still even having the later style struts doesnt allow you to have anything too big. If you look at my wheels you can probably go about an inch larger then that before you are hitting the lower pan, and even an inch is cutting it close.
Pitty there isnt anyone selling a setup for the front with a smaller front pan.
I see, so reading the posts
I see, so reading the posts in the ' Broke my strut thread ' am i right in saying that swapping to newer struts No. 334405 with the higher perch, using my existing springs ( my strut is MR554800 and measure 245mm from weld to base) and then spring spacer on the rears would give approx 1" lift and allow slightly bigger tyres
Andy
Yes - BUT -
If you read further - you'll also discover that using the earlier springs with the later strut reduces the available droop and will destroy the struts as they "top out" - very easily.
My suggestion to you is that you take the time to go through the threads and try to follow the discussions.
Just to clarify
If you read further - you'll also discover that using the earlier springs with the later strut reduces the available droop and will destroy the struts as they "top out" - very easily.
My suggestion to you is that you take the time to go through the threads and try to follow the discussions.
Using the earlier STANDARD springs with the later struts is fine. It places the strut right in the middle of it's operational range at rest. The "top out" only happens when trying to use raised aftermarket springs with the later struts...eg: King Springs, Dobinsons etc.
In fact, the newer/higher pan struts with standard springs is the ONLY combination I'd recommend unless you're prepared to pay big $$$ and go for a coil over set up.
Yep...you gain about an inch which doesn't sound like much, but you also get the ability to gain extra height under the diffs by fitting larger tyres which you can't really do with the old/lower struts. Not to forget, the fresh struts also give it that "straight off the show room floor" handling that's eroded away with years and kms.
Other benifits are that by using the standard springs, you don't end up with a harsh ride and the suspension will still articulate really well in the uneven stuff. I'm surprised how many people still believe that stiff suspension in a 4WD is good. Nope...the opposite. Look at all your competition trucks etc, soft suspension absorbs the bumps and allows you to keep all 4 wheels on the deck.
Don't be affraid to ask questions either... I learnt through trial and error, so that others can learn and hopefully avoid the mistakes I made.
Fab.
Who is right!
Who is right....both?....Hi Andy, food for thought! I think that they are both right but if I had to choose, I have to be on Fab side. The front of the io have around 8 cm of wheel droop, not much:( and loosing some is not great, but I don't think that 25/30mm is going to be enough to top up the strut, any more and I would say "Fordem warned you!!"
As always, I could be wrong.... ask my wife!
Happy io
75mm lift
Just to give you a description what I did on mine from where it was till now. I also had the std struts in & replaced them with the lifted pan strut (If im not mistaken they come standard in the TR4 models) and also kept my origal coils. I gained 25mm body lift at the front as I needed it cos the IO runs nose down. By that I plained the body out so that the front and rear are level. As all IO owners we are never happy with what we have so I installed coils all around which gave me a 50mm body lift. I ended up with 75mm lift in total. Bare in mind that with the orignal struts you can fit 235/70/16 tyres in easy. I fitted 245/75/16 in (huge diff lift from the normal 215/65/16) but it rubbed everywhere.
Ok now the catch, from the std to lifted strut there is no diffrence except for the pan that is welded higher. Which means you travel is still the same between both. So when you fit longer coils in your travel shall be the same (on both struts) / less because your coil pushes the strut shaft out more. Bottom line is to take all the confusion out of what works best for a lift, whats the travel before and after longer coils, whats the biggest tyres we can fit with what strut.....ect we have to spend more time looking for a suitable coil over setup that will give us enough wheel travel, fit bigger tyres without the pan being in the way & give as a decent body lift.
Thats my 2 cents gentlemen.
.
To whoever is interested.
There seems to be four relatively acceptable methods of gaining ride height in the IO. On this site at least.
All proven in the short term only.
All suit the owners.
All cause doubt, or raise concern for others.
These being.
- Glens coil overs. + 50mm at this point.
- KTM300's strut spacers and dobinson springs. + 70mm.
- NZIO's (Mazda?)springs and strut shaft extention. + 50mm.
- Sema Loco's monster strut spacers. + 3".
If I were considering a lift I would concentrate on these four methods, and how they achieved the results.
Weigh up supposed pro's and con's of each. Bear in mind what you want or expect this car to do.
Cheers.
Syndicate
Thats great info, exactly
Thats great info, exactly what i needed. I really want to run my iO a little higher, I think i will be going down the KYB strut / dobinson spring path so i can chuck some 29" tyres on. Im pretty interested in the custom coilovers project though. Keep up the good work!
When it comes time to get the tyres, i will collate some info & prices as to whats available in 29"