Mitsubishi FTO wheels
Hi Guys,
I've been looking for some wider rims for the IO that don't compomise the already small clearance between the tyre sidewall and the strut.
I wanted something that could be made to look stock, would suit the car and wouldn't cause any major wheel alignment/offset issues and so far I think i've found a close winner.
I bought these rims fairly cheaply with totally worn out tyres, they appear to be commonly sold on ebay and boostcruising etc as owners upgrade to 18" etc alloys.
Pro's:
They are 16x6.5" so i'm getting an extra half inch width, doesn't sound like much but 225's are a lot more stable on 6.5" and 7" rims. I tried to find a 16"x7" stock mitsu rim and couldn't find anything suitable.
Cheap! $50 for the four!
The offset is +38, this places the inside lip of the rim approx 1.5mm further away from the strut than the stock 6" wide rim. i know that isn't much but most mitsubishi stock alloys that are 6.5" wide have a +46 offset which would move the rim 6mm closer to the stut - not good as my tyres have less than a finger width clearance stock.
They are OME mitsubishi rims so nuts/center caps etc are a direct swap
I think the 5 spoke design looks a whole lot better than my 3 spoke or the "5 moons" stock Io alloys
Rims are lighter, the spokes arch from the mounting face and anchor near to the center of the rim reducing the extra material stock Io rims have to span the load from the center of the rim out to the outside edge where the spokes anchor on
Wheels stay within the guards and don't look wider than normal
Cons:
The rim internal profile of the spokes and rim reduces the rim-to-caliper clearance to about 2mm, would be closer to 1.5mm with fresh pads. Stock Io rims have about 4-5mm clearance. I don't invisage geting sticks etc jammed in there any more than the stock wheels however it will be interesting to see if sand is an issue
The outer rim lip on these fto rims is lighter than stock io rims, The stock 3-spoke ZR rims i'm running has the outer lip about twice as thick as the FTO however i've yet to ding a rim
Spoke face is curved potentially letting rocks role into the spoke area however i've had no issues with rocks yet and after last weekend (see "how I almost rolled my io" post) I doubt rocks would be a major issue at 18psi for either rim
FTO's have a space-saver spare so wheels will often only be sold in lots of 4, not 5
----
Once I repaint them a slightly darker colour to hide all the scuffs and faded paint i'll get my 215-70/16's moved across and see how I like the feel of them - I may have to end up running 2mm spacers to increase caliper clearance however as a whole I'm really happy with the look and the offset, I would not want to go any wider without fiting flares. It's great that a stock mitsu alloy will do the job as I'm not a fan of buying new mags for a 4wd application and considering how much punishment the mitsu mags take now i'd be happy to stick with Mitsu mags.
Will keep you posted on how they go.
PS any vic users: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FTO-16-MAGS-114-3-PCD-FIT-SOME-MITSUBISHI-FORD-MAZDA-/290592322355?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a8a6f333#ht_500wt_1156
Thanks
Bob
FTO Wheels
Currently refurbishing a set of these to go on my 1.8 pinin, will be finished in matt black.
They will shod with these in 235 width
runnng a 25mm KYB lift with Belton desert fox coils.
Thanks for the tip on the FTO wheels, great tools for the job and very cheap indeed.
Curiosity question
Why would a properly made spacer, regardless of thickness, prevent the rim from mounting on the hub squarely?
I haven't looked at the stud length, but a 3mm thick spacer is really not that thick, and as long as the spacer has parallel faces, the wheel should fit squarely.
The potential problem that I see is that the original wheels, (and the FTO wheels if they take the original lug nuts) are "hub centric" wheels, and any spacers fitted will need to have a recess machined in the back to accomodate the locating shoulder on the hub along with a shoulder on the front face to locate the rim - this might actually mean that a thicker spacer would be easier to machine than a thinner one.
As an alternative you could switch to "lug centric" rims in which case the spacer would just need the recess in the back - plus of course new lug nuts.
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I don't understand why this happened - but - my post is actually in response to Bob's post below it.
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Photos
Will happily shove some pics up once its done lads. With those wheels on, she's purely a bad weather/snow machine. I've road biased tyres for other times when the weather is kinder.
Hope it helps or inspires someone. With decent chunkies on and a lift, the light weight and high power of the Pinin makes it a pretty unstoppable wee machine.
Trial Fit
Did a trial fit today, with one FTO mag with an old tyre on. No problems at all.
It's pretty tight indeed at the caliper, and I have fairly new pads in there, but it did clear it. I used some engineers blue just to check, and no probs, it was clearing. Just my paranoi that said otherwise.
I've ordered a set of 5mm spacers just to give some better sand/debris clearance between the caliper and the mag though. I may also lightly sand down the caliper, as it has a ton of excess meat on it anyways.
Will post in a pic of the black wheels if anyone is interested as well.
Next job is to source these darn KYB lifted shocks. Can I get them anywhere? Can I hell.
Looking like the next step is to get some second hand shocks, cut and re weld the spring pan.
Just as well I love a challenge :)
hub centric is the issue
Why would a properly made spacer, regardless of thickness, prevent the rim from mounting on the hub squarely?
I haven't looked at the stud length, but a 3mm thick spacer is really not that thick, and as long as the spacer has parallel faces, the wheel should fit squarely.
The potential problem that I see is that the original wheels, (and the FTO wheels if they take the original lug nuts) are "hub centric" wheels, and any spacers fitted will need to have a recess machined in the back to accomodate the locating shoulder on the hub along with a shoulder on the front face to locate the rim - this might actually mean that a thicker spacer would be easier to machine than a thinner one.
As an alternative you could switch to "lug centric" rims in which case the spacer would just need the recess in the back - plus of course new lug nuts.
This is the exact issue - the rims are hub centric and given the standard pajerio io front disk hub lip being around 7mmish and the inner lip of the wheel hub starting about 3mm in from the mounting face, fitting a 3mm spacer (none have the hub centric lip) would reduce the available mounting hub to near zero.
There is not enough space to run a hub-centric spacer and the thicker wheel spacers are seriously not leagal where as a 3mm shim is mildly less illeagal.
I Looked at lug centric rims and the tollerances on the studs is more of a hinderance plus the rims are not designed for that.
In all honnesty the safest option is probably to take 1-2mm of metal off the brake caliper outer with a file to incerase the clearance from 2mmish out to 4mm-5mm and leave the spacers out of it.
fto mags
Currently refurbishing a set of these to go on my 1.8 pinin, will be finished in matt black.
They will shod with these in 235 width
Thanks for the tip on the FTO wheels, great tools for the job and very cheap indeed.
how is your front caliper clearance?
I've looked at ebay spacers but the thinnest i could get was 3mm which i think will be a little bit too thick for the rim to mount on the hub squarely.
There is another set on ebay with tyres for $400 in brisbane, tempted but not needed.
Would love to see how yours look once finished, mine are on the back burner for the moment.
FTO wheels are a winner!
OK - update!
I've finally managed to get the right sized tyres and fit them to the Io and they are perfect! Picked up some 225/75-16 maxxis mudder tyres cheap off ebay and had them fitted to the rims, only issue is I now carry a square of wood to raise my jack enough to get the rear wheels off if i get a flat. Didn't realise the 5-spoke FTO's would give a Discovery/Rangerover look but i'm diging it.
Went for a burn this afternoon and there are no contact issues with the FTO rims, the offset gives good clearance to both the strut and the spring pan with NO SCRUBBING on full lock and full compression - WOOO. Steering is still neutral and no weird effects when drifting on gravel.
You can see a polish mark on the strut half way down where the sidewall of my 215/65-16 tyres on stock Io rims would slightly rub when worked heavily, now there is ample clearance. New rims and tyres don't stick out much if anything past the guards so no compliance issues. yet to see how the rears tuck into the guards on full compression.
I also checked the rim spoke clearance to the caliper - it is close, about half the clearance of the standard rims however the section that is close is fixed to the hub and won't be moving. My idea of running a 3mm spacer is shot though as the standard Io wheel hub only keys into the rim bore by exactly 3mm, space it out that amount and you lose the hub-centering ability and have wheel wobbles / broken studs if pushed hard. a 1.5mm spacer is all I'd be game to run and frankly now that i've driven through mud/gravel with the rims I see absolutly no need. Both the FTO rims and the standard IO rims had wear marks at exactly 3mm so it must be a mitsubishi standard.
Cost so far has been:
Rims $50
Strip and dispose old tyres off fto rims and swap/fit/balance new tyres off navara rims $85
225/75-16 tyres with navara rims $140
sell navara rims -$40
Total: $235
Have a look below and let me know what you think!
Awesome
Looks great Bob, mine is in today getting welding done at the rear for the Brit MOT, the annual roadworthy test, and I'm going to use those guys to reweld my spring pans a bit higher. 2 inches should be enough.
Set of spacers or re-sized 150lbs/inch compression springs for the rear, and thats the lift done.
I bought a set of spacers, 5mm ones, but seems like no need for them with the trial fits I've done.
How much is yours lited by mate? It looks fantastic :)
I've went for sating black on my wheels, be fun to see it on.
fto rims fitted
Time well spend, it look great, and thanks for the info, nice and easy to do. I like it! Didn't had your io lifted?
What the tyres like? are they noisy?
Again, Fantastic.
Claude/Claud io.
Thanks Claude, I knew there was going to be a direct bolt-on option out there.
No i haven't had a lift put in my Io and with the extra 1" clearance from the tyres i'm not in a hurry. I went for a run through some of the tracks I used to hang up on and had no issues, I also put the rear under full compression and the wheel tucks into the guard with about 10mm to spare so perfect in that regard too!
I'm looking at these Ford
I'm looking at these Ford Explorer rims - 16x7, PCD=114.3, and from what I find on t'internet the offset on these should be +38. Do you reckon these might fit with the same 225/75 16 tyres as you've got on your FTO rims?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/mitsubishi/other/auction-415276639.htm
ford rim
Hello,
Some how I have received your email. I am a bit like you...not sure.... But size is one things that doesn't guaranty a proper fitting the io have a brake caliper that have the bad habit of being in the way. Same for the bottom strut spring plate (as you probably know) So try first, buy after. I have seen other blog mentioning the 225/75/16, so the tyre should be fine. Check the section talking about wheel and suspension, other have found some nice wheel like the mazda tribute...Good luck, let us know!
Claude/Claud io
Some useful links
You also need to consider the centre bore of the wheel which is 67.1mm on the iO.
This site has a list of wheel sizes, however I cannot garauntee in which country they apply and whether they are the same as where you are. I can say that it was correct for the Mazda Tribute in Australia (offset of 45mm for the ones I bought).
http://www.carlsalter.com/wheel_fitments.html
Wheel offset calculator
http://www.1010tires.com/wheeloffsetcalculator.asp
Tyre size calculator
http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp
See how you go with those, but from the looks of it the Ford Explorer has a centre bore of 100mm. If you know of some for sale then maybe you could ask the seller to measure the centre bore?
ford rim options
I'm looking at these Ford Explorer rims - 16x7, PCD=114.3, and from what I find on t'internet the offset on these should be +38. Do you reckon these might fit with the same 225/75 16 tyres as you've got on your FTO rims?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/mitsubishi/other/auction-415276639.htm
Nice looking rims!
standard rims are 6" +46 offset, a 7" +38 rim as above would be 4.7mm closer to the strut at the lip of the rim than standard which isn't the end of the world but is closer than it is right now and would potentially move the tyrer closer than standard to the spring perch - not good!
The outer lip would stick outboard 20.7mm further than standard which will put it outside the guard and require a guard extension bead to remain legal (depending on local regulations). I stuck with 6.5" as wider i.e.7" didn't really give me any advantage if i maintained the strut clearance (7" would need about a +33ish offset and protrude an inch)
Also ford rim hubs are 70.3mm and mitsu's are 67.1mm so you will NEED (as in absolutly need) to buy a set of hub-centric rings to support the ford rim correctly or expect to break studs and/or have wheel wobbles at highway speeds.
Mazda and Mitsubishi hubs (and some ford) are the same hub diameter so this isn't an issue and is the primary reason i went looking for a mazda/mitsu option.
Ford "fusion" "probe" and "espcape" are listed as 67.1mm hub and the right stud pattern but no idea on the offset
ford probe 16" below:
http://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/ford_probe_16_wheels_150_63129_8017730.jpg
mazda RX7 16" wheels were another I was looking at trying but at 16"x7" and a huge 16"x8" standard width seemed to be more expensive and not as available as the FTO mags.
let us know how you go!
Yep I've trawled through
Yep I've trawled through those and many other lists, calculators, etc - the problem is most of it is US-centric and I wouldn't rely on them fitting the same wheels there as in Oz and NZ. I think the center bore is actually 70.6, but not too worried about that as a ring insert will sort that out. I guess the bottom line is unless it's tried and proven already - like your FTO wheels - then it's try before you buy or be prepared to sell em on if they don't fit.
Nice job on those FTO wheels and tyres, they look way better than the original disc alloys - if I can find some here at a reasonable price I'll go with them.
Just bought these for NZ$100
Just bought these for NZ$100 + another $60 or so to get them to Wellington.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=422959522
I know the PCD and centre bore will fit, but not 100% sure of the offset (I think they are +45, but unsure if they are 6, 6.5 or even 7" - even the Kia dealer couldn't tell me. Also unsure how the colour will work with the burgundy/silver two tone of my io, but they're cheap enough anyway that I'll flick em on if they don't work out.
16x6
they are the 16x6" stocko's (http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car/values/specification/viewspecs.aspx?gid=70550&tid=88946074)
the fancy ones are the 17x7" with the silver/black paint-outs (http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car/values/specification/viewspecs.aspx?gid=69461&tid=96863597)
specs show same pics but your's are the 16x6"
Typical.... you wait ages for
Typical.... you wait ages for a bus and then two come along at once.
I spent several weeks looking for a set of FTO wheels at a reasonable price and found nothing... so I cave in and buy the Kia ones, then 2 days later a set of FTO wheels gets offered at $140. So now I've bought those too. I collect them (and the Kia ones) on Thursday so will try them both on for size this weekend :)
Fto rims in sydney
Yeah it's always the way! I've been hunting a spare rim for the back and couldn't find any then in the space of a week 6 rims turn up!
There are a pair of fto rims on gumtree sydney for $100 in hornsby, been there a while now and no good to me due to postage.
So now I have two choices -
So now I have two choices - the Kia Ceranto Koupe rims are immaculate but only 6", and with 48 offset are virtually the same as standard - I did trial fit a rim (PCD and centre bore are the same) and with a tape measure and eyeball it looks the same distance from the strut as standard.
I didn't bother trial fitting the FTOs seeing as Bob's been there and done that for us already :). The set I've got aren't in great condition, but have scrubbed up OK and look alright from a distance.
What do you reckon....
FTO rims:
Kia rims:
Yeah I hate the standard ones
Yeah I hate the standard ones too - and the clearcoat on mine is breaking up quite a bit.
The studs fit fine, but the Kia rims need a bevelled edge nut. Fortunately the seller shipped me the nuts with the rims.
Yes I might go with both - the AT2s that are on it now have got 10k + life left in them so I could run them down on the Kia rims.
So after a quick visit to the
So after a quick visit to the tyre shop I now have:
Old AT2 tyres on Kia rims:
and to bring this vaguely on topic, a new Kumho KL71s on FTO rims 
Which don't fit... yet. Theyre stacked where I'll see them at least twice a day - not to lose motivation to find 30mm+ of lift / wheel clearance SOON...
I weighed a part worn AT2 on Kia wheel to compare to a Kumho/FTO wheel - obviously the Kumhos are heavier, anyone like to guess how much the weight difference is?
Also I have a free set of original rims available. You just have to pay shipping... 
Don / NZIO
new tyres
FANTASTIC, don't they look great? wait to have them on the car:) I glad to see that you keep on going. A bit of challenge will make thing even sweeter!
I don't know the weight difference but I had to remove one to fit the new mudflap, and that was much heavier, I wouldn't be surprise to have more than 5kg per tyre.
Nice and shiny car...
Happy io.
Lift option
So like I said I need at least another 25mm of lift to run my FTO/Kumho KL71s (which by the way, are 7.5kg heavier per corner than the Kia rims with Dunlop AT2s!). I don't want to spend too much on it, so I think I'm just going to move the spring pan 40mm up the strut and keep the standard springs. This will change the camber from 2 degrees +ve to 1.5 +ve - I'm not too concerned about that and I can always get a set of adjustable top plates, but I doubt half a degree will be a problem anyway. Losing 40mm off the downward travel is more of a worry, but I think it'll be OK for now.
mod on strut
Be careful, if you mod the spring pan you will have to change the shock insert, they are too short, see Granthem's car in the build section, and more elsewhere.
The top plate you found don't fit on the io, but I am working on that one. I don't think 0.5 degree would be too harfull.
Happy io.
Sure but...
...The early io has the spring pan 25mm lower than the later ones like yours - if it's the same shock insert maybe I have 25mm more travel available than you and Grantham. That's a big 'if' I know.
If you jack your car up from level how far does the front wheel droop? ie what's the difference between the distance from the top of the wheel arch to the ground when at rest vs when jacked up to the point the wheel is only just touching the ground?
You may well be right - all I
You may well be right - all I know is what I measured on mine which is 1.5 +ve on both fronts. I haven't owned it long and don't know if its set up right. I was mainly just looking to see how much the camber changes with a 40mm lift (half a degree).
Camber for Fordem
Fordem, I just want to correct what I said earlier about my camber measurements - mine is negative 2 degrees, not positive. Mine has had a very easy life with its previous owner so I would expect the springs to be in decent shape - which maybe supports your theory that what you see in your camber is due to some sag in your springs, except you'd expect to see more -ve with compression not less surely.... Does it have a lot of understeer? What's your height from wheel arch to the ground?
More compression = more negative
That's right, as the spring compresses and the ride height drops, the bottom arms become closer to horizontal, pushing the bottom of the wheel out and taking the camber negative.
Front ride height on mine is approximately 665 on the left & 650 on the right, measured from the lower edge of the rim (stock 16" alloys) to the arch above it - as far as understeer goes, I'm rarely in a situation (travelling fast enough) where understeer would be noticeable, however, there is considerable scrub at low speed full lock, or near full lock turns - I have fitted caster bolts to compensate for the camber and it's pretty close to the above mentioned spec if not within it.
WOW!!
and to bring this vaguely on topic, a new Kumho KL71s on FTO rims
Which don't fit... yet. Theyre stacked where I'll see them at least twice a day - not to lose motivation to find 30mm+ of lift / wheel clearance SOON...
Are these 225/75-16"?
have you actually tried fitting them?
WOW!!
and to bring this vaguely on topic, a new Kumho KL71s on FTO rims
Which don't fit... yet. Theyre stacked where I'll see them at least twice a day - not to lose motivation to find 30mm+ of lift / wheel clearance SOON...
Are these 225/75-16"?
have you actually tried fitting them?
Nice eh :)
Yes 225/75 16s.
They fit fine on the rear - just stick out from the body a few mm and still articulate up inside the fender OK.
On the front they will be a bit closer to the strut than standard - 10mm clearance still though. I need at least 25mm more height than I have available with this early strut spring perch so haven't fitted them yet.
advice on new wheel
Me again,
I just saw advertised (allclassified.com.au) 4 original jeep wrangler 2007 rim, 5 spokes, for sale for $100, I think the pdc is the same and they should be 16x7, if they fit is it worth doing? I think that the center is bigger, can I buy a guide to make it fit? Probably going to need new wheel nuts too?
The more I look at my 3 spokes rim the more I dislike them...but I don't want to spend too much for the look of it...yet:), tyres cost $1200, and the diff, hopefully soon, a bit under $2000...
All advices welcome
Thanks,
Happy io.
Jeep
As far as I could work out from the various sites that have PCD and offset info the jeep wrangler rims are a possibility. Ideally you'd want to try before you buy, but if they're cheap enough you can always flick them on again if they don't fit.
I don't see why you can't have rings made up for the centres if they're not off the shelf items.
wheels
I looked long and hard at the wrangler rims however decided they were too heavy for a small 4wd and put my track outside what could be passed off as OME. I wasn't sure how the larger offset would affect guard clearance as the rears tuck significantly inside the wheel arch on full compression and clearance with the headlight backing gets close the further outboard the wheel is placed.
You may need to get some hub-centric rings for them too as the hub on some of them is slightly larger than mitsubishi's.
If you are after 16x7 it might be worth checking out some of the jap imports places for VR4 rims and some of the diamante (sp?) imports as they have a +35ish offset.
that all said $100 for a set of 5 rims is pretty sweet!, even if you need to order some custom nuts and hub rings
Jeep
Claud I think the bottom line for unproven swaps like this is that you can only go so far in working it out on paper because there are so many variables and not enough accurate data on the rims. If these are cheap and close to you why not give them a try, otherwise as Bob said there are more options from Jap cars - the 114.3 PCD and 67.1 centre bore are common to most (but not all) Mitsi, Kia, Hyundai, some Fords, some Mazdas.... and various others. In a 7" rim you're looking for around a +33 offset to maintain the same backspacing as the original rims, but up to 5mm either way would be worth trial fitting I'd have thought.
KYBs
...and on the subject of KYBs (sorry - this thread is all over the place thanks to me). The local disti has KYB 334405s in stock at $270 each and they measured one up for me while I was on the phone - it is 265mm from the bottom of the spring pan to the bottom of the strut, the same as Claud's pic of his. I need to check again if this will add enough to my standard ones to fit the wheels, it's going to be close and I really don't want to run wheel spacers...
Edit to add - I see Fielies is running 245/70 16s with these struts which are wider and in theory also 5mm bigger in diameter than my 225/75 16s. Hmmm...
Fto are good
...and on the subject of KYBs (sorry - this thread is all over the place thanks to me). The local disti has KYB 334405s in stock at $270 each and they measured one up for me while I was on the phone - it is 265mm from the bottom of the spring pan to the bottom of the strut, the same as Claud's pic of his. I need to check again if this will add enough to my standard ones to fit the wheels, it's going to be close and I really don't want to run wheel spacers...
Edit to add - I see Fielies is running 245/70 16s with these struts which are wider and in theory also 5mm bigger in diameter than my 225/75 16s. Hmmm...
And the fto rims place the tyres out from the strut more than stock further adding to the clearance, see my clearance pics of the fto rims
Jeep wrangler wheel.
Thanks Bob,
I'm glad I asked because the weight was not in my list of potential problem. The muddies have already put some extra weight.
I saw the add, search for size and I thought "maybe?"
One question, you mentioned that the 225/75/16 will be better on a 16x7 instead than the 16x6, what do you mean by that, is it because of the way the sidewall flex? by replacing my old wheel with the 16x7 would the ride be different?
Thanks again
Happy io.
Syndicate
howd they go?
Hey Bob howd the FTO rims go on the iO. have you tested them.
i also have the 3 spoke ZR rims which im not a fan of. I personally think it makes it look like a girls car...
So what i plan to do is put my outlander steel stockies onto the iO. donno how it will look though. may have to get some center hub caps if i do that too...
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http://www.pajerio.com/forum/daniels-io