Pinin wont start when engine warm
Hi, i am having some trouble with my 2002 Pinin 1.8 MPI; this is a recent purchase and everything seemed fine when i bought it; however i am having a recurring problem when it has been out for a run and left, if the engine is warm still it wont start; it may fire up then stall (and not start again) or it may just turn over continuously without starting; it needs to be left to completely cool down before i can successfully start it again.
The engine management light does not come on when the ignition is turned on, nor deos it come on at any onther time; and on inspection of the fuse box, there appears to be a fuse missing from the location marked D.
Any help or advice gratefully received.
Is it possible that the
Is it possible that the problem is related to what appears to be a missing relay in the fuse box? Looking at the manual on here it seems this is supposed to have the the "fuel injector drive relay"; i will take a look to see if the lamp has been removed tomorrow.
My guess is NO.
I would like to think that if the "fuel injector drive relay" was missing, there would be no drive to the fuel injectors and the engine would not run at all - it should be noted that it is normal for some parts to be missing based on the options fitted to a particular vehicle. I suspect the relay you are asking about is used on the GDI engined vehicles as those have a separate fuel injector drive module and so would not be used on the MPI vehicles.
I took a look at the manual - the GDI engines do have an injector drive relay that controls the power to the injector driver module that is not used on the MPI models.
Step #1 completed.
Now you need to read the CEL codes - they will tell you what the engine management system thinks is wrong - my guess is it will relate to coolant temperature.
The easy way is to use a code reader, the cheap way is to jumper pin #1 of the diagnostic connector to ground and count the flashes of the check engine light.
Please note - the CEL codes are often misinterpreted - a code pointing to a failed sensor can also becaused by bad wiring, etc.
What did you order?
More importantly, does it work with the Pajero iO?
The most common readers are OBDII compliant, but not all vehices adhere to that standard - my iO which is a used JDM vehicle does not - I had to use the jumper method. I did eventually find an android app and bluetooth interface that works, but only on the engine management - it does not communicate with any of the other computers (AT, ABS, SRS, ETACS, etc.).
My car currently has a "historic" code set in the AT controller - it says the output speed sensor failed - caused by a broken wire, which has long been fixed, but I have no way to clear the code.
Hmmm
I don't think that should cause a warm start issue - does the reader allow you to see live data?
If it does - hook it up with the engine cold and look for intake air & coolant temperature sensors - the readings should be very close to one another (and to ambient temperature if you know what that is) - start the engine and let it warm up - you should see the coolant temp increase.
Hi Fordem, I checked the live
Hi Fordem, I checked the live data and the coolant temperature rose as the engine warmed up; i have now changed the 2 ignition coils and the other two leads, spark plugs and i was going to change the air filter but there wasn't one in the housing so i put a new one in; i have just been out for a run and its been left for about 20 minutes and i am going to see if it starts in a bit...
Well there is no difference
Well there is no difference at all, in fact it is having trouble starting when its cold now! When i turn the ignition on i hear a lots of clicking sounds and this also occurs when i turn the ignition off, could this be something to do with the problem?
Without knowing what's clicking...
it's hard to say.
The iO uses what is sometimes called "drive by wire" - an electronically controlled throttle assembly rather than a cable between the throttle (accelerator) pedal and the throttle plate (if you have an automatic transmission, there is a cable, but this is for the transmission, not the throttle) and this make a series of thumps when the ignition is first switched on, but I don't recall any similar sounds after switch off.
If you're sufficiently familiar with the engine to be able to locate the throttle body on your own (my car is a GDI, so I can't tell you where yours is), rest your hand on the throttle body and have someone else switch the ignition on - you'll be able to feel the movement if that is the source of your clicks.
Hi Fordem, the clicks are not
Hi Fordem, the clicks are not coming from the throttle body; my MPI engine has a cables from the accelerator to the throttle and when i turn the ignition on the clicks are heard, not when i am trying to start the vehicle. Looking in the manual it appears that the fault code P0135 could actually signify a problem with the ecu rather than the sensor itself; i will persevere and see if i can test the sensor and narrow the problem down some more.
P0135 is an O2 heater circuit fault
It doesn't tell you where the fault is, just that the ECU thinks there is a fault - what it actually happening here is that the ECU is not seeing current flowing in the O2 heater circuit - it could be anything from the O2 sensor, the sensor wiring, to yes, the ECU itself - but - as far as I am aware, all that means is that the O2 sensor will take longer to come to operating temperature (more time from start up), because the electrical heater is not working (the sensor will eventually heatup because of the flow of exhaust gases), and as a result it will take longer for it to provide usable data to the ECU.
The ECU uses the data from that O2 sensor to control the "fueling" of the engine - to tell it how much fuel to inject - BUT - the O2 sensors aren't used at start-up, either hot or cold - on a cold start, the ECU will run in what is known as "open loop", injecting fuel based on a fuel map, until the engine reaches operaing temperature, on a hot start, if the engine is already at operaing temperature, the ECU will run open loop (and ignore the O2 sensor) for the first several seconds of operation.
The above should, hopefully, explain why I don't think that code is related to the hard start problem.
You will need to fix the O2 sensor issue at some point - put the car on ramps or jackstands and wait for it to cool - find the O2 sensor connector - it should be clipped onto a bracket under the passenger side floor - it will have four wires - two of which will have the same color - those are the heater wires - disconnect them and measure the sensor resistance - verify it against the manual - it's not super critical that the readings match but it should not have an infinite resistance (open circuit), next measure the voltage on the other half of the connector on the same wires - with the engine just started, it should be 12V.
I have the same problem, the
I have the same problem, the engine (1.8 GDI) will start from cold fine and run great at higher revs but once warm it will stall or if I switch off it won't restart until cold again.
The engine management light doesn't come on and I know it works so I'm guessing it's not a sensor issue but a mechanical / electrical one?
There is a strange humming coming from the throttle solenoid when the ignition is on and for a few minutes after switch off (is this normal)?
The throttle body is clear of carbon and there is an electromagnetic resistance when pushing on the throttle butterfly.
Is my problem a coil gone down maybe as I know insulation can break down when hot or could it be the fuel pump relay (where is this on this vehicle RHD UK model 3 door)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
RB
.
On the GDI engine the throttle is electrically operated, I don't recall mine making a hum, but there is a noise when the ignition is on that slowly dies away after it is switched off - are you sure the throttle body is the source of that hum - I seem to recall that the noise is not present if the injector drive unit (over the right strut mount) is disconnected.
If a coil fails, presumably you mean an ignition coil, the engine should start & run on the remaining three cylinders - I've had two coils fail in the four years I've had my car, both have had holes burned through the body allowing them to arc over to the plug tube - they are sometimes repairable, one of mine has been repaired twice and I keep it in the back as a "get you home" spare - that one also causes an intermittent missfire that only shows up at cruising speeds.
The fuel pump relay is most likely in the under bonnet fuse panel (near the battery) - I believe all the relays on the iO are in the fuse panels - there are two - one under the bonnet, and the other under the dash, behind the little pull out cubby on the driver's side - sorry - I can't tell you which one it is, I'm not where the car is.
The forum has a resource section, which has a downloadable manual that may help - it does not match my car exactly, but it may match yours (mine is JDM)
Thanks for your help. The
Thanks for your help. The humming noise is definitely the throttle valve servo. If I press on the butterfly it changes pitch as the electromagnet pushes back. If the noise isn't normal then I'm guessing there could be a fault on the throttle valve control system. First I'll try the fuel pump relay then work my way through it all.. I'll check the relay tomorrow and see if a bypass makes any difference. And as you suggest I'll try disconnecting the injector drive to see if the noise stops.
RB
Well, after much stripping of
Well, after much stripping of throttle bodies, head scratching and reading every piece of info on the net about hot start problems with the pinin I decided to check the spark plug gaps.... DOH!! number 2 coil pack / plug cap was full of corrosion and green crap.
Cleaned it all up and hey presto problem solved.
I bought a set of plugs for good measure while I was visiting the city. (Bought wrong ones so selling them on here and will get some right ones on my next trip)
Moral of the story, check the easy stuff before getting carried away with vehicle specific faults., oh and double check part numbers before spending £47 GBP on the wrong bits!
QRob
.
I am glad you got it fixed ..... I could say I told you so (post 4) but I won't...lol....
This said you are dead right about checking/replacing the easy stuff first, this is a great example of the importance of servicing your car on regular interval.
You might need to search as why that plug was like that, were they all similar or just one a lot worse that the other ? Green crap?...not sure what it could be from, or you could have a faulty/tired coil, that the new spark plug compensate ...
Happy io
Pajero Io won't start on could I REALLY NEED HELP!!!URGENT
Hello,
i'm in trouble with my pajero Io and i would like to ask a help, in fact i clean the throttle i remove the sensor(black on the back side i was so stupid to not make a mark where it was) now i have the car having trouble starting when its cold and is seems to be like three cilinder or do not go like before .
I really do not know what's going on so i would like to ask:
how i can set back the sensor on the throttle(right tuning)
how i can solve the issue of not starting when cold (can be any sensor of O2, the throttle valve, sensor....etc...)
I also before removing the throttle hear a lots of clicking sounds and this only when i turn the ignition on........
guys i'm almost desperate i need a help and some diagram where to read and see those sensors or to understand what's going on!!!
I already clean up: Fuel pump, EGR valve, Cam(was full of carbon) ....... :-) not happy at all!!!
Thanks
BR
DANILOS
Hi, and welcome to the
Hi, and welcome to the forum.
I don't know if you've seen my last post on the subject but I was having exactly the same symptoms as you.
It turned out to be a corroded plug cap so just try removing each coil/plug cap in turn and checking for any green corrosion causing a weak spark at the plug(s)
It's an easy fix and easy to check. Just clean everything up and you should be running sweet.
Good luck.
Pajero Io won't start on could I REALLY NEED HELP!!!URGENT
dear Robandjack
I already check and seems to be all goods :-( ..... i really don't know where to check!!!!
I would like to cut in pieces the engine !!!!
Thanks
BR
which engine??
is your engine the GDI or the MPI?
* if it's a GDI no idea - download the user manual and start going through the GDI trouble shooting charts in the "engine" section
* if it's an MPI you can re position the "throttle position sensor" using a multimeter - measure the resistance on the pins 1-3 as you rotate it and set the idle at 0.7ohms (from memory - check manual for exact procedure)
the "idle air valve" (three screws holding it on under throttle body) can get clogged once you clean other parts of the intake - unscrew it and clean with a spray cleaner.
Hello it is 1.8 GDI Pajero IO
Hello it is 1.8 GDI Pajero IO - LRXC4 Pearl Package-2, 4FA/T
H76W-0114320 so this about the sensor can only be for MPI? or GDI do not matter what is the position?
Plus one more things i disconnect the battery many times because when the sensor was in a wrong position i got a enginee light on and the only way to get away would be to disconnect the battery and try to move the sensor on the other direction and after was not coming up any more.
So when i disconnect the battery do i need to do the Idle Learning Procedure(or no need?):
Mitsubishi Service buletin MSB-00E00-505
Learning function if GDI engine.On GDI equipped cars,
when the ECU is replaced or the battery is reset (disconnected),
an idle learning function for the ECU will be required
when the ECU is replaced or the battery is reset (disconnected),
an idle learning function for the ECU will be required
Idle Learning Procedure
1. Start the engine and warm the engine until the coolant temperature
reaches 85c or higher.When the coolant temperature is 85c or higher,
you only have to switch the ignition to the ON position.
2. Turn the Ignition to the LOCK position to stop the engine.
3. After 10 or more seconds, restart the engine.
4. Run the engine at idle for 10 minutes with Transmission in neutral (P for Auto),
air con and heater off.
5. Stop the engine.
6. Restart the engine and run it at idle for 10 minutes with Transmission in neutral
(P for Auto), air con on at max cool, fan high speed and windows open.
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6.
Note:
1. When ambient temp is 20c or higher and the air con has been continually operated,
step 7 may be omitted.
2. During idle in steps 4 & 6, when engine operation switches from lean operation to
stoichiometric operation, engine stall can occur.
In this case, clean the throttle body (throttle valve) thoroughly and repeat
step 1 and the subsequent steps.
reaches 85c or higher.When the coolant temperature is 85c or higher,
you only have to switch the ignition to the ON position.
2. Turn the Ignition to the LOCK position to stop the engine.
3. After 10 or more seconds, restart the engine.
4. Run the engine at idle for 10 minutes with Transmission in neutral (P for Auto),
air con and heater off.
5. Stop the engine.
6. Restart the engine and run it at idle for 10 minutes with Transmission in neutral
(P for Auto), air con on at max cool, fan high speed and windows open.
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6.
Note:
1. When ambient temp is 20c or higher and the air con has been continually operated,
step 7 may be omitted.
2. During idle in steps 4 & 6, when engine operation switches from lean operation to
stoichiometric operation, engine stall can occur.
In this case, clean the throttle body (throttle valve) thoroughly and repeat
step 1 and the subsequent steps.
Source:http://www.pocuk.com/
Thanks
BR
The relearn procedure is there for a reason...
The vehicle will start and can be driven without the procedure being done, but consider this - do you really think Mitsubishi (or any other vehicle manufacturer) would go to the trouble of issuing a service bulletin that was NOT required?
By the way - you're missing a step - the engine needs to be up to operating temperature before you start the relearn - I think the bulletin specifes 85*C.
Guys i just got my car back
Guys i just got my car back from a workshop and it is the same.....
no success to get solved..... same issues..... :-(
what they did:
clean EGR
clean throttle valve
clean high pressure fuel pump
clean plug sparks
the car it is the same.....when cold starting with difficulties, when getting high hills going like three cilinders, and seams to have not enough fuel.....
i really don't know anymore what to do.....at last i will go to mitsubishi workshop and ask to connect the car and check what's wrong....i'm tired to waste money and time.....any other solution in the mean time.....
Thanks
BR
idle air control
I cleaned my idle air controller (located under the throttle body) and appeared to have solved my poor starting idle when cold. Was really dirty/sooty when I pulled mine out. 3 screws and 5 minutes of your time, may be worth a shot. I can't speak about the lack of power on hills, do you run 98 petrol? Have you used injector cleaner before?
Syndicate
I would start by sorting out the engine management light.
Fixing the engine management light would be my first step - and I would start by removing the dash cluster and checking to see if the bulb has been removed - I've heard of people removing the bulb to conceal the fact that a problem exists - if the bulb is there, and good, but not lighting then you have an ECU problem that needs to be looked at.
You could also check for CEL codes, either with a code reader, or by jumpering pin 1 of the diagnostic connector to ground - but - the jumper method flashes the codes on the check light, so you'd have to get that sorted out first.