Flashing front wheel lights at switch on.
Do your "Super Select 4WD" indicator front wheel lights flash at switch on (before engine start) when you're in 2H?
The Super Select display has three lamps, one for the rear wheels, one for the center lock and one for the front wheels (the display shows four rectangles representing the four wheels, but the front & rear have one lamp that illuminates both rectangles) - I was reading a blog that I came across on troubleshooting the system, and it suggested that if the front wheel lights flash when the ignition is switched on, that there is a vacuum leak.
My question stems from the fact that sometimes mine do, and sometimes they don't - which may or may not relate to an intermittent problem that I have with the front freewheel not disengaging.
The free wheel actuator is spring loaded so that it defaults to the "engaged" position and is dependent on engine vacuum to disengage (although, if the splines do not line up when/if vacuum is lost, it may not actually engage) - sometimes I can switch on the ignition after the car has been parked overnight and the front wheel indicators do not turn on, and other times, I can switch on after the car has been parked for less than 15 minutes and they flash, in most cases if they flash at switch on, they go out at engine start, sometimes with an audible clunk, sometimes silently.
The intermittent problem manifests itself as the front freewheel engaging when it shouldn't - which could be caused by a vacuum leak (or a lack of vacuum) - most days it works as it should, but every once in a while it'll stay engaged until it decides to disengage - my biggest problem is that the occasions when it chooses to act up are those when I can't make the time to stop and troubleshoot it, forcing me to work on it after the fact and the wait to see if the problem shows up again. The location of the solenoids (above the right frame rail) doesn't make troubleshooting it any easier.
light
I just tried on mine and the light are "off" when the key is on the "on" position, engine not running. I will check during the next few days, because I think that they are flashing a couple of time, but only after the engine start....in the morning, when the engine haven't run for a while, and not when the car have been recently used. I will get back to you on that one...
Happy io
Hmmm
One of options I have been considering is to simply replace all of the vacuum lines, but I've been stymied by the fact that new vacuum lines are not available locally, and replacing a suspect vacuum line with a used line of unknown condition is not exactly the best way to deal with an intermittent problem - my daughter goes back to Tampa on Friday, I can order the line and have it sent to her apartment and then have her drop it in the post.
Found a "leaky" check valve ...
Still futzing around with this - spent New Year's at a friend's campsite and left the car outside when I got home - went to put it away three hours later and the lights were flashing at key on, went off at engine start, very easy to notice in the dark.
This morning - no flashing lights - I hooked up a hand vac tool and cannot draw a vacuum on the system, flipped the knob (it's a double acting vac tool) and pressurized it and it was leaking down, which shouldn't happen, so I pulled the check valve, and when I disconnected the hoses and inverted it, got a bit of what might have been rust particles (or dirt) out of the top end. It rattles, so I suspect it's nothing more than a ball in a plastic body - I ran some MAF cleaner through it and it holds pressure now, so I reinstalled it.
What I did notice is that even with the check valve out, which means no vacuum in the system, I had no flashing lights - my guess is the splines in the freewheel are not lined up so it has not engaged, despite the lack of vacuum - so I guess it's wait & watch.
Intermittent problems are such a PITA.
Anyone who knowingly, willingly, drives an iO
Has to be a masochist - having said that - I am keeping mine!
You guys with the SOHC MPI (ie non GDI) iOs probably have more room under the hood, so getting to the front freewheel vacuum solenoids is probably less challenging - I took mine out today, so I could verify the functionality. I started by removing the battery, then the accelerator/transmission kickdown cable mounting bracket and with all of that out, there is less than four inches of free space between the inner fender and the intake plenum, not enough room for my 1/4" ratchet handle with a 3" extension.
By the way - for any one of you who frequents water - the front axle breather is behind the solenoids, pretty low down, and pretty easy to extend - all you need a few feet of 1/8" ID vacuum line - I'll be extending mine before I re-install the solenoids, so I'll take pictures and start a thread. The rear axle breather is on the axle itself, I'll raise that also, but I'm not sure when.
One solenoid valve was leaking.
After some more futsing around with the rather confusing test procedure in the front axle section of the FSM, I ended up disconnecting all of the tubes and testing each solenoid valve separately, and found one to be slightly leaky, so both were treated to the same cleaning as the leaking check valve - a quick shot of MAF cleaner through the various ports - I also disconnected & lubed (with rubber grease) each vacuum hose connection and noted what appeared to be rust deposits on the plastic tee that is used to connect the various lines together - and that's when I figured it out.
When I had disassembled the vacuum actuator before christmas, one side of it (it's a double sided or double acting actuator with two vacuum chambers separated by the diaphragm) was quite rusty - that side has the rod linking the actuator to the free wheel mechanism running through a nylon bush, and I simply wire brushed the rust out with a rotary tool, and paid it no further mind because a leak on that side doesn't really affect the operation - or so I thought - the actuator is spring loaded in the engaged position and requires a good vacuum on the other side (the one that was not rusty) to disengage it. It will engage if the vacuum on the disengage side is released, even if no vacuum is applied to the engage side.
What appears to have happened is that moisture possible drawn in past the rubber boot that covers the actuator mechanism, was pulled by the vacuum through the nylon bush and the resulting rust was then drawn throughout the vacuum system contaminating the valves and causing them not to seal properly - the strange thing is - there was no sign of water having entered the area protected by the rubber boot.
In my opinion - NO - it doesn't.
The only reason I asked the question is that I came across someone else's blog that suggested that it was an indication of a vacuum leak - my iO has/had been doing it probably for as long as I've owned it, and had recently developed another intermittent "flashing light" issue and I wanted to know if the two possibly had a common cause.
After disassembling, checking & cleaning pretty much the entire vacuum system, I can definitively state that I did have a vacuum leak, but not whether that was the cause of either issue - the vehicle was reassembled yesterday, and apart from a test drive yesterday evening has not been started. Since both conditions were intermittent it will take some time for me to reach a point where I'm willing to say that the problem (either one) is no longer there
With regard your question - assuming that your super select 4WD system has not been tampered with - if the front wheel indicator lights work as expected - stay off when the engine is running and the vehicle in 2H, and turn on when it's in 4H, 4HLc or 4LLC (again with the engine running), then I would say when the lights are off, you're in 2WD.
If you feel the need to confirm this, there are a number of tests you can carry out.
The 4WD is made up of two main parts, the transfer case and the front axle, which contains a freewheel mechanism - technically - 2WD just means there is no power transmission from the transfer case to the front axle, however, Mitsubishi built a freewheel mechanism into the axle to further reduce wear & fuel consumption, so that needs to be tested also.
To have 4WD both transfer case and front axle mechanisms MUST engage, and although disengaging either one will prevent 4WD from being used, ideally 2WD should have both disconnected.
First test will test the transfer case - jack the front of the car up and place on stands so the front wheels are clear of the ground - rear wheels blocked, engine off, transmission in park or neutral, hand brake up, transfer case in 2H - slide under the car, grab the front drive shaft (from transfer case to front axle) and try to turn it - it should turn - put the transfer case in 4H and try turning the drive shaft again, this time it should not turn - please note - it may turn and then lock - that's normal, it depends on where the splines in the transfer case selector hub are when the lever is shifted.
Next - start the engine - engine vacuum is required to operate the front axle freewheel mechanism - since the transfer case is in 4H, the front wheel indicator lights will either be on or flashing - if they are flashing, rotate one front wheel by hand until the freewheel mechanism engages and the lights stay on - again this is normal, it depends on where the splines in the freewheel mechanism are when the actuator changes position - block one front wheel, or have some one hold it to prevent it from rotating and attempt to rotate the other wheel - it should not move. Now, select 2H, make sure the front wheel indicator lights go out, if necessary rotate a front wheel until the freewheel mechanism disengages, and with one front wheel blocked or held stationary, rotate the other one - it should turn now.
Regarding the fuel consumption - I would say what you are describing is normal - I would guess that you have an MPI engined iO (meaning not GDI - gasolene direct injection) and possibly a manual transmission. - the automatics tend to be a little more thirsty around town, and the GDI engined cars will typically display better consumption on a longer run.
Thanks fordem, I will carry
Thanks fordem, I will carry out the checks at the weekend, engine is 2.0 litre gdi and averages less than 24mpg ,28 on a run!
Andy
Incidentally noticed today flashing on ignition,, then out on startup, when I stopped the car and turned it off then turned it straight back on there was no flashing , so must be leaking as fordem suggests
Well - the intermittent problem is still there.
The car has been parked at the side of the house since I put it back together and everything checked out fine - this morning I went to move it - no flashing lights at key on, but by the time I got it out of the drive way, they were flashing.
The probable reason they weren't flashing at key on is that the splines in the freewheel cutch were not aligned so the mechanism remained in the disengaged position until the axle shaft rotated far enough for them to slide together (they are spring loaded in the engaged position).
Fortunately, today, I wasn't enroute from Point A to Point B, so it was possible to do some troubleshooting - I have verified that the freewheel mechanism IS engaged when it should not be, and that the electrical side of this thing is working - it's not too difficult to get a meter probe into the back of the solenoid valve connectors and watch the voltage change as you shift the transfer case lever between 2H & 4H - it seems that I have an intermittent solenoid valve failure.
I guess it's time to pull the solenoid valves back out - the plan to swap them around - the A solenoid valve is responsible for disengaging the freewheel, B handles engagement and I don't think is really necessary - the actuator transfers to enaged once the disengage vacuum is released because it's spring loaded.
Solenoid valves are back out ...
And the A valve confirmed as non functional - coil is open circuit - never seen an intermittent solenoid before. I had this solenoid out last Satuday & it bench tested as functional.
There's a guy "around the corner" from here, sells used parts who might have - trouble is, he knows how "rare" the vehicles are so he prices parts accordingly - still I don't think these solenoid valves are unique to Mitsubishi, so I might get lucky, if not, I'll be looking at the options of deleting the engage solenoid valve, which probably has the advantage of not drawing moisture in through the actuator. The only thing stopping me is that the lack of physical clearance makes experimenting a tedious process.
I'm not really a picture guy ...
And the angles involved don't make for good pictures - you're looking down into a four inch wide space from above - and about half of that four inches is occupied by the accelerator cable mount - the diagrams in the service manual would probably be easier to understand.
You also have the option of looking at your own car - open the hood, stand alongside the right front wheel, locate the top strut mount and then look down the inner fender - you'll see a mass of wires & hoses - that's where the solenoids mount.
BUT
I did have my son take a few shots, to go into a "how to" that I'm planning to put together on diff breather extensions - the OEM breather location is behind the solenoids, so we do have a couple of shots showing the breather with the solenoids out and the solenoids in place. Give me a couple of days & I'll have the first part of the "how to" up.
Anyway - I was unable to get a replacement solenoid valve, so the car is back together with the valves swapped and one vacuum line plugged with hot melt glue - the freewheel seems to engage & disengage as it should - but, this is an easily reversible modification should it not function correctly or if a suitable solenoid became available.
We're now back to observing the lights to see if the problem resurfaces, although I'm fairly confident that it won't - what I'm not entirely sure of is how it will function with the one solenoid out.
G'day all. i've had a similar
G'day all. i've had a similar problem, the orange diff lock has flashed since i've had my pajerio (about a month or so) not overly fussed about it. but not it seems as if it is stuck in 4wd. with both front and rear lights on, and it drives as if it is in 4wd. When trying to change back to 2wd the lights flash as if it is trying to chage but then keep flashing and it doesn't change.
I've also seen a bit of fluid loss from under the vehicle which could possibly be the reason? I had a service done a couple of weeks ago and nothing was picked up, possibly i need to go to a 4x4 specific mechanic?
Has anyone experienced this before, how costly was it to fix?
oil leak
For an oil leak, I would advise to buy a cheap spray can of degreaser and give it a good wash and then keep looking to see where it does come from after.
This said, from what you said, you may be driving in 4wd with may be the diff lock engaged...this is, to me, not good and should be avoid. This is ok on dirt road, not on the black top....it might not be much to fix, but need to be fixed.
My advice...if it feel like the diff lock is "on" don't drive it...go and see your mechanics
Happy io
A couple of comments.
Toddg - leave the engine idling (the front freewheel disconnect requires engine vacuum to disconnect), transmission in park or neutral, handbrake up, transfer case in 2H - slide under the vehicle from the right, grab the front drive shaft and try to turn it - if it turns, the vehicle is in 2WD and the light system is lying to you.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only way to be in 4WD or have the VCU locked with the lever in 2H is an internal transfer case problem or a damaged shift lever - there is a rubber bush at the bottom of the lever assembly that disintegrates as it ages - if yours has gone, the lever will have excessive amounts of sideways movement.
The 2WD/4WD selection is purely mechanical, as is the VCU lock/unlock.
JOP
I can confirm the Pajeros use the same vacuum solenoids, the mount bracket is different, but the solenoids are the same
Solenoids
I used the cheap solenoids from Asdown-Ingrams, I work around the corner from them.
The solenoids do the same job, a bit different placement where the hoses attach, and I had to replace the plugs on the vehicle to suit the solenoids.
If you put the two solenoids together, one upside down to the other, a couple of cable ties to hold them together and they fit into the same holes as the original solenoid bracket.
Ian.
Didnt end up having time to
Didnt end up having time to have a check this afternoon but ive dropped it off at a mechanic nearby to have a look at it for me tomorrow. So hopefully he will beable to atleast figure out exactly what is wrong with it. And give me some idea of how much it will cost to fix.
Good luck with that...
In my experience, unless the mechanic works frquently on Mitsubishis, and is familiar with the system, they will just throw parts at it - even the dealers are unwilling to spend the time it takes to figure out the maze of pipes & hoses, plus the electrics that control it.
Replace all five switches (there are actually six, but no one remembers the one on the front freewheel) and the two solenoids and you're good to go - as long as you're not footing the bill.
It took me literally months to find an intermittent solenoid problem on mine including removing & bench testing the solenoids twice - it was during that investigation that I created this thread, and along the way, I have learned how to determine quite quickly whether the problem is electrical or vacuum.
Am I Checking the right spot?
Got it back from the mechanic this afternoon, only thing he has found out so far is the ~$80 switch for the diff lock light, that i already knew about. He's had it for 2 days but hasn't charged me anything which is a bonus, i've ordered the switch as it was starting to annoy me having the orange light flashing and i'll be dropping it back early next week to continue the fault finding.
In the mean time when i got home, i tryed doing what you said fordem and climbed under the car with it in neutral and 2H, just checking that i was trying to turn the correct thing?
how freely is it meant to move, should i be able to turn it around a full rotation? i was able to move it a little bit but nothing approaching a full rotation.
yes
Yes, it is...but as Fordem wrote, the engine must be running for you to be able to fully turn it.
If the engine is not running, it won't turn (or very, very little)
I might be wrong, but it look that your transfer case have some kind of metal protection, bolt onto it....
Happy io.
As usual, Claude is correct ...
That is the front drive shaft, and you should be able to turn it as many revolutions as you wish, if both ends are disengaged - which should be the case if the transfer case is in 2H with the engine running.
Looking back at your posts - you seem to have both front & rear wheel green lights on and the orange VCU light flashing - what position is the transfer case shift lever in?
If the front wheel lights are lit, the front axle should be engaged and the shaft should not turn by more than 45* or therabouts.
If 2H, you have multiple problems and I would start by making sure the lever itself is engaging the shift rails in the transfer case.
Syndicate
Since I have replaced the
Since I have replaced the solenoids, only a few weeks ago I know, my front wheel leds are always on or off, depending how I have left the vehicle overnight in 4wd or 2wd.
I have left the vehicle over the weekend in 2wd and the front wheel leds will still be off when I start the vehicle Monday morning.
Ian.