fto engine swap
So I was reading today that the fto came with a 4g93 as one of the options, but also came in a couple of more powerful 6a1 engines. Wouldnt this mean, and correct me if I am wrong, that engine mounts would be compartable and we could fit one of these 6a1 engines to our cars? Obviously some things wouldnt be a direct swap becuase of the orientation of the engine. But it would be maybe a cheaper option then a turbo 4g engine?
Just a thought....
engine mounts
Do you know if the 4g18 motor I have has the same engine mounts as the 4g9 motors that also come in the IOs? I hope so or any engine swap will be a mission for me.
I was under the impression the 4G92 was the only one that came with a mivec head, didnt know a 4g93 did also. I was thinking a stock 4G92 enough swap would be good enough.
Not sure
I know all the 4g9x series are the same but the deck height increases between some generations. Also the thermostat passages are drilled on different sides depending on application.
Buying a 2L io engine complete would be the best option, ecu might not need replacing either.
Gearbox bolt patterns to the block are different between engine evolutions though, I.e. 4g9 and 4g6 are totally different.
My background is with engine swaps in 1970's vehicles, match the input shaft, get a clutch to flywheel then cut-shut bellhousing to bolt together.
I'm looking at what was available circa 2000 from lancer and fto however time and time again it comes back to needing to massivly alter the loom and mounts.
As the io id the ONLY body with north/south configuration the gearbox must stay
Easiest big horsepower option will be a headswap on a block that came stock in an io, or go turbo/supercharged.
I have not looked into doing the change back at the transfer box though, might find the 2.8L delica motor and gearbox will mate to io transfer case
.
From what I recall, the 2.5TDs - at least the one's we get here - mostly in the L200 & L300 series - are not that powerful, in fact I think they have less horsepower than the 1.8GDI although lots more torque.
I just was looking at that last night, I think they come with 3kw more then my 1.6L. haha.
torque
Depends what you want to do with the car but for me it would be all about torque at low revs, particularly with the larger tyres on and the not-very-low ratio box. Having said that, there's a lot of other things I'd do to it before contemplating an engine swap.
near on impossible to satisfy emisions laws due to engine block
We need to keep in mind that the engine MUST be same age or newer than the vehicle it is going into to be registered leagally in Australia - been through this with a Niva running a 2L DOHC Lancia racemotor.
FTO is out for me as the latest ones, even import half-cuts were 1995 mivec, no good for a 2002 Io.
I recon keep my io 4G94 SOHC, maybe with the 4G93 SOHC cam for a boost or go a 4G93E DOHC MPI conversion. Might be easier still to buy a 4G63T crate block and do a custom belhousing, atleast then some components would be bolt-on whereas the 4G94 DOHC would be 100% custom manifolds and injector rails.. - the brake upgrade required to run the evo motor would be harder than the block transplant and loom mods anyway. Back to square one again ;)
...perhaps the euro 4G94 GDI, running the 4G93T GDI 1.8L turbo manifolds.... Hmmm, would need octane booster for the fuel and 98RON pump fuel forever onwards though..
need sleep to think
4g94
The main point is to be able to easily find another engine when time come...Not having a common car makes it hard to get parts (new or second hand), but at least it will be easy to get another engine. So as long as the 4g94 is in the lancer, it will remain an easy, not too costly, one to get...if it fit, even with low kms.
Happy io.
I agree Claud, would be nice
I agree Claud, would be nice to find something I could build up as i have them then swap into the beast once its ready, very little time out of action that way.
I had a 96 Lancer GSR that had 4G63 Galant VR4 conversion with Autronic EMS done to it, (older motor) I bought it inn ewcastle and drove it back to Vic, I went through getting it Reg and roadworthy with no problems. Cant see why it would be any harder with the iO?
4G63 not an option
OOOOKKKKKK - thought I'd keep you updated on the grunt-quest.
I've been heavily looking at an engine swap to boost the torque and potentially raise the redline so I have some more RPM to play with.
The 4G93 to 4G63 convo the lancer boys do seemed to be the easiest option, keeps the capacity at 2L but is out for us, unfortunatly the lancer fwd gearbox has a removable bellhousing that has the same bolt pattern at the gear box end for both motors, lets you swap direct engine+bellhousing with some fiddling with the flywheel/clutch, Io's on the other hand do not - our bellhousing is itergral in the box.
DOHC 4G93T motors look great, bellhousing bolt patern is the same for the io, yes you could strip a 4G93T and build into your 1.8L io block but all the emisions gear is too old and the heat produced is not worth messing with without a true 4G93T evo 4 style engine which is too old for 99% of io's out there, no way to rego without grinding off the engine number and re-stamping to match the engine rego'ed in your io now, not something i would recommend! plus the bulk of the turbo piping goes behind the engine in a lancer and wouldnot clear the firewall in an io.
Looked into the delica as they have the 4G63 and a N/S gearbox, doing a box as a swap allowing a 4g63 into an Io, keeping the five speed and our transfer box but alas the delica gearbox to transfer is too long and the wrong bolt up too, thought about the entire delica drive train but again too long :(
Looked back at 4G9X motors and the options are limited, DOHC and mivec options leave you stuck with a frankenstien that won' take any available manifolds, AND reduce your engine size to 1.8/ 1.7L or land you in 11:1 compression teritory - BAAAD news.
Lots of lancers go the turbo option but turbo'ing the 4G94 actually reduces the torque available 0rpm to 2100rpm which is where you won't want to loose any. You do get a massive spike of power but unless your wheels are already spinning before you hit the hill you'd need to do all hill climbs at around 65km/h!
.....and then I found something spectacular, easy, safe and (hopefully) perfect for the io
will post some details if it all comes through ok this week - if not i'll hang my head in shame and put up with my 92kw
we want to know....
Hey guys, I just read through
Hey guys,
I just read through some of this and thought I might jot down some stuff from I came across investigating this same thing back in 2004. FYI: We took the 4G93 option at it's been running like a dream ever since!
4G93 - Turbo
4G93T Rataing Assembly (Crank, Rods and Pistons) falls striaght into the 4G93 factory fitted to the 1.8L io's. You can also use the factory girdle for added strength and the original io sump goes striaght back on.
The Turbo Manifold bolts on, however I found it was easier to make a new one to put the turbo where we needed it. I also took the opportunity once it was all running to swap to an inlet manifold out of a lancer which (sorry, can't remember which one now...) so that the throttle body is aiming at the front of the car on the drivers side, instead of over the rocker cover. This simplied plumbing and kept the inlet path away from the heat of the turbo.
This was the best and most reliable way to get boost into it without an engine / driveline swap - Just needed a donor EVO 3 engine and turbo. The EVO Injectors fit into the rails with the spacers from the EVO fuel rail and you'll also need the injector ballast kit as well (Hi vs Low Impedence Injectors).
I wouldn't say torque is reduced at any point, but by comparison to 'On boost', off boost does seem boring by comparison! ;-)
An Aftermarket ECU was used, however these days you'll probably find someone handy with Open ECU may be able to flash the ECU and tune it to suit without any changes to wiring (no entirely sure on that though - Just a huch).
4G63 - Turbo
For those thinking of the 4G63 conversion - It can be done, but you will need to lose some one of the cool features of Super Select etc. The G series engine in the Mazda Bravo / Mitsubishi Triton 4CYL 4WD is a derivative of the 4G63 engine and as such, the 4WD boxe out of these perticular cars bolt on to them. Not a bad box I am led to beleive as it was donated to the parts bin by Mazda, so from the input shaft to the transfer case atleast (That I'm aware of) it the 5 speed from a RX7 Turbo...
But - Then everything will be custom and you'll need a donor engine from something newer than you're Io due to regs (In Australia anyway).
My 2c,
engine swap
So If I understand, you keep the io engine block (to still fit with the gearbox, engine mount...) and you swap the rest from a 4G93T engine, head and all the rotating assembly.
Do you know if this set up would work well with 2 new camshaft to improve the torque ? My understanding from what have been said before is that you don't loose the torque as such, but climbing in the high rev to quickly could not be so good for 4wdriving ? I have no idea !!
Happy io
In short - Yes..Kind of. We
In short - Yes..Kind of.
We could have used the EVO 3 head, however we ran out of time so had the factory Io head ported with a good midrange cam and oversived valves fitted. I think the issues was bolting on the relevant EVO 3 head and gear was an immediate issue as using it with the Io oil pump meant there was no oil filter??? I'll need to have a nother look at that. It wasn't inurmountable, however by the time we realised that we had 3 weeks until the event and it was before the magic of google so we stuck the factory head back on.
But, The EVO 3 crank, rods, pistons and lower block brace (girdle) bolted striaght into the Io original block without fuss whihc meant it was up to the task of taking some boost!
As far as the turbo goes - It was pretty old technology then (TD05 from the EVO 3) however now it is ancient. It is a mid sized turbo, which means as you point out it's got plenty through mid range and up top, but a little laggy. If I had to do it again, I would chose a much smaller turbo. There are heaps of options these days - Something like a TF035 (from a Subaru Forester) won't provei quite as much top end, but it will be better EVERYWHERE else including improving the transition from off boost / on boost much more progressive.
I've got a Suzuki Vitara with a frankenstein engine (Twin cam 1.6L / smaller turbo) that is significantly more polite, even though it doesn't have quite as much top end...
SO - To answer your question on making it more tractable... Use a smaller Turbo such as the TF035 or even one of the new Borg Warner EFR turbo's and use your factory cam (It's designed for lowe end torque). If you're keen and know you're tuner, get yourself an adjustable cam gear and advance it as far as you can get away with. I recon that would be your best bet as the setup would naturally want to come on song early, while having the boost to make the top end fun when you get there.
6A13TT
Most of the guys over at the FTOAU club prefer using the Galant/Legnum's 2.3l 6A13 V6 DOHC TT engine to swap over in the FTO as a turbo setup.
Would that engine be fit inside our IO's? The 6A13 DOHC twin turbo version had production year from 1996-2003, so compliance shouldn't be an issue I guess.
Here's the link to the FTOAU forums, http://ftoaustralia.com/v3/viewforum.php?f=22
There are tons of helpful guys in that forum (Bennoz, dstocks, ftonoob, vipfto etc), and am a member there as well (shadowarrior). We might get some more details about the engine and the mounting info from them?
Syndicate
my thoughts exactly
man you've read my mind! I've had my eye on the FTO GPX 2L mivec version of the V6. It's compact, has a fat torque curve and rev's like a maniac!
It _should_ fit in the engine bay however mounts would be full custom jobs, custom sump and bellhousing adapter/modifications could be interesting.
There are very few 2L FTO mivec manual motors out there for the FTO, 99% are auto's and need the auto trans to work the computer.
..would almost be easier to go with this beastie: the 4G94 motor with 4G93 DOHC mivec head, impractical, taller but a frankenstien bits-n-pieces ball-tearer
http://www.youtube.com/user/lltracing/feed
.