Full suspension lift
I'm looking at getting longer shocks and coils to achieve my lift. that is the only way i want to do it.
my reasoning behind this is so that i can gain longer travel, with the advantage of a suspension lift at the same time.
I know it can cost quite a bit. but its just the way i want to go about it...
What i want to know though, is, what other models can i use shocks from? ie. triton, pajero, delica etc?
Or would i be better going koni heavy tracks (pajero io specific), with longer coils?
I can't remember if i read it somewhere, but can i use shocks from a leaf sprung pajero?
And lastly, if i do go shocks from one of the above models, are there any suggestions for the front?
Thanks in advance
suspension
I think the same, I have a couple of projects on the way for the io but when time comes I will have a small lift and try to improve the wheel travel (the front is a real joke!!!)
Ktm300 have used a longer shock for the rear that could be used, check his build thread, post 10 and 13. I hope that you will find something great....
Happy io.
Well..
Front strut is a real problem....
as a MAcPherson system, mounting a longer coil can lift the body but you loose travel the same amount (in a stock shock, of course)... Some guys have done this way here in Brazil...
I choose to mount top spacers in order to keep at least the same stock travel. Other thing I made that helped is take off the stabilizer rod...
Rear is easier. Ford Escort Zetec springs and L200 Triton Shocks. In fact I have also 1" spacers on rear, and it is waorking fine... Gonna fix the panhard rod soon...
yeah for the front, i'm
yeah for the front, i'm really hoping that the koni insert is longer than srandard? i sent an email to climax suspension (http://www.climaxsuspension.com.au/catalog.php#), to see if they can measure the compressed and extended lengths of a set of koni heavy tracks, to compare against standard kyb shocks...
What are the standard lengths by the way if anyone knows?
Fingers crossed the konis are longer, because it says on the climax website "Suits standard & 35mm raised height suspension Heavy Track, Modification to original struts required.(sold in pairs)"
The rear is easy and seems to
The rear is easy and seems to me there is alot of option for the rear shock. One we have also fitted is from the Ford Ranger Pickup with a lifted coil.
Going for the Koni will also work but you will surely pay much more than you would for a L200 or ranger shock. As always the front is a torn for us all. I will stick stick to my guns and sayw e have to get a soutable coil over conversion. Glen, any updates on your for sale yet?????
suspension lift thing
Hi Daniel I am also doing the suspension lift thing i had to replace my macpherson struts in my 2002 swb io as they were starting to lose oil and would not work and fail a warrant of fitness so took it to a garage and mentioned that i would like to do the lift thing they put in two new kyb 334405 shocks and got a set of cobra lift coils which lifed the io (from ground to edge of wheel arch) ,820mm in the front and 836mm in the rear which has left me only 37mm of droop in the front which isn t enough so will have to look at using old struts to get strut extenders made up or come up with some other solution to solve this problem i would even look at putting in purpose made shocks that would solve this problem if i could find them and sell the kybs thats where i am up at the moment best of luck with your suspension lift let us know how it goes
cheers Kimbo
after a lot of research and
after a lot of research and time thinking about it, im currenlty half way in saving some money for my suspension setup.
i htink im going to go some koni heavy track inserts with a spacer down the bottom, and use kings springs front and rear. just need to find longer shocks for the rear, im thinking of using the L200 shocks... i dont want to lose any articulation, but trying to gain some is near impossible in the front, so now i just want some lift with some higher quality components than stock...
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Also keep in mind the stock panhard rod will pull your rear axle to the left the more you raise it and limit your right hand sides downward travel to no more then stock. So you will have to have it extended too.
aalllssooo, You will probably find the extended spring length of the king springs are no longer then stock. They are just a heavier spring so they sit higher, which means you wont need longer shocks.
Konis
Im also thinking that this is the way to go for the front. I'm going to start saving for them now :)
I'm waiting to get some old model front springs for my new model higher pan struts which should allow me a 25mm lift with the same in extra down travel via the spacer under the koni inserts.
I've got some astina springs in the garage waiting to go in, when I do the koni order I might get some adjustable rear konis. No extra travel, but some better quality shocks would be nice. The articulation in the front is the main problem I think.
Don't extend the panhard - relocate it
If you extend the panhard rod, it will put the axle back in the center, but it will increase the lateral movement as the suspension flexes - fab some sort of relocation bracket that will move either the axle end up or the frame end down, by the same amount as the lift.
old model springs
I'm waiting to get some old model front springs for my new model higher pan struts which should allow me a 25mm lift with the same in extra down travel via the spacer under the koni inserts..
i never even thought about using the older model springs.
that is a good idea. that way the spring will be less sitff than using kings. love your work mate.
i was thinking also that another option would be to make some coilovers like glens, but with with the koni inserts. keeping in mind that the springs he used have around the same spring rate as stock springs... i just thought that whilst i had the struts out i might as well go the whole way. it would mean more money but i would be able to lift it higher... i was only thinking maybe an extra inch
then again i think your idea natsterr is probably more practical, safe, and more secure...
This actually raises something that's been on my mind.
I'm waiting to get some old model front springs for my new model higher pan struts which should allow me a 25mm lift with the same in extra down travel via the spacer under the koni inserts..
i never even thought about using the older model springs.
that is a good idea. that way the spring will be less sitff than using kings. love your work mate.
i was thinking also that another option would be to make some coilovers like glens, but with with the koni inserts. keeping in mind that the springs he used have around the same spring rate as stock springs... i just thought that whilst i had the struts out i might as well go the whole way. it would mean more money but i would be able to lift it higher... i was only thinking maybe an extra inch
then again i think your idea natsterr is probably more practical, safe, and more secure...
Has anyone compared the ride height on the old & new models? As a matter of fact - how do you distinguish between the old & new models?
Over the past few months I have been measuring iOs as I come across them - I keep a tape measure and paper in the car, and will not hesistate to step up to someone sitting in a parked iO and ask them if I can measure their car.
I have noticed that some iOs have a difference in the grille - earlier production has a metal strip that runs from side to side below the headlamps, later production doesn't, there is a space below the grille - and also in the bonnet - there is a raised "mid section" that tapers (becomes narrower) toward the front, on earlier production the raised mid section tapers off (becomes lower) as you go forward, on later production, the raised section continues all the way to the front edge. The difference in the bonnet MAY be dictated by which engine is fitted, with the 2.0 needing the raised bonnet to clear it, but I don't have enough evidence to conclusively state this.
I assume that my iO is an old model for two reasons - it's a mid 98 and it has the low pan struts - it also has the full width strip below the grille and the lower bonnet line that I described above - the problem is half of the vehicles I have examined would fall into early production (based on the hood & grill) and the other half would be late - BUT - mine has been the only one with the low pan struts.
To come to the point - I believe the early (low strut pan) vehicles, stock, have more ground clearance than the later (high strut pan) vehicles - the back of my vehicle is consistently higher than most that I have measured, and the front, which I am convinced is sagging, is within 10mm of all of the vehicles measured.
Of course - I have no idea if any of the vehicles I measured have sagging springs, but I have attempted, where possible to get the chassis numbers and confirm that they are fitted with the correct struts.
Back to the question - do early iOs have more clearance than late?
Hi to all I am also looking
Hi to all I am also looking at those koni inserts but need a short term solution to the cobra lift springs so i am getting some alloy spacers made up and putting the stock springs back in. I found out from a suspension specialists that my old shocks that i had taken out MR992092 will take diferent inserts one thats of interest is the monroe MG234 thats a replacement for a toyota camry and has a stroke of 218mm and long body version 387mm while the MR992092 stroke is about 170mm but matching a spring will take some trial and erra. Anyway got more pressing matters front diff has spung a leak.
cheers for now
suspension
My 2 cents...
Daniel, and the other!...
If you want to increase the wheel travel, I think that heavier spring have a shorter travel.
Another concern I have with the heavier spring, the light io and the koni insert, this setting may not be matching together. What I mean is the insert can be adjusted, from soft to firm. The heavier spring and the light io will be very firm and that is it. I think that you will be loosing a good part of the adjustable koni insert. You will probably end up with a very firm ride. This said, nothing wrong with a firm ride, if it is what you want/need and it does have some very good advantages (mainly on road). I don't have much knowledge with suspension modification as such but I would get advices from an engineer or someone that have some good knowledge before putting these spring and the koni insert on your io. My feeling is that keeping your spring rating the same as original will be a better solution, and you will be able to install the heavier spring later if you feel the need too.
I fitted some koni insert on a friend's VL commodore, I can tell you that the firm position would brake your teeth! and this setting was NEVER used by the owner...too hard (with no over mod in the suspension, tyres)...
Again, I am no expert and I could be wrong...ask my wife...
Happy io
I'm with Claude on this ...
If long travel is what you're looking for, a heavier (stiffer) spring is a step in the wrong direction - springs are rated in lbs/inch - the number of pounds it takes to compress them per inch, so - in very simplistic terms, if you put a 500lb vehicle on a 200 lb/inch spring, the spring compresses 2.5", put it on a 250 lb/inch sping, the spring compresses 2" and so on - one of the things I've noted with the iO is that it seems to use long, soft, large diameter, springs - I have no idea what the actual spring rate is, but when I put a spring compressor on them, the way they compress suggests it will be quite low.
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I was concern about this when installing the dobinson springs in my car, now I have never checked how far they compress as I am always in the car when its all happening under there. But I have seen photos where my tyres seems to be sitting pretty damn high in the wheel arch. I might go for a drive during the week and get out and take some photos just to see how far they do/dont compress.
If only Glen was still around to offer that complete suspension package he was making. sigh.
thanks guys for the advice on
thanks guys for the advice on these matters. i really appreciate it.
i reckon for optimal performance in the front struts withought doing coilovers, is probly by installing the konis, using stock springs/rates, and creating lift by the use of a strut top spacer...
for the rear i still think that L200 shocks and longer coils are the go. but am concerned about them matching... My rear suspension seems to me to be very firm anyway... it feels like when i hit a bump on the highway or go over a speed hump it just drives over it instead of absorbing the impact and going over. maybe i need a test drive in another io to tell but i can tell you now that in my outlander the suspension dampening and absorbtion was much better than in the io. and my outlander is only 1 year younger than my io but with double the ks on it. go figure... maybe its beacuse the outlander is more of a soft roader i dont know but it just felt smoother. or maybe it is because th io is exceptionally light...
In response to Fordem a few posts up:
The strut thing is a mystery, and it may be different in different markets, but I think there has been someone on here (single cell?) with an 'old model' iO with the 'new model' struts.
From this I have assumed that the 1999-2000 models would have the lower pan struts, and the mid 2000-2001 have the newer struts. From mid 2001 we had the facelift - beefy bonnet, grille, no more metal strip below the grille, no more 2 tone paint jobs, body coded and different shaped front and rear bumpers and the 2.0L engines.
I can't say whether there is a difference in ground clearance.
I've just noticed on eBay that there is a UK spring supplier offering front and rear 'stock' springs to suit all different pinin models - 1.8 3door, 1.8 5 door, 2.0 3 and 5 etc. I think someone from that part of the world with a later model Pinin has the lower spring pan struts, so I'm thinking that it might almost be worth buying a set of springs from them which are brand new and installing them on my newer struts to see what happens. But that is a several hundred dollar gamble which I'm not really sure about!
Hopefully I'll find some used older springs to try and follow through with my plans soon!
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As Natsterrr mentioned....I think that all io,in Australia, have the same height. The strut are different depending on the year making, with different spring to compensate....but I won't bet anything on this!!
Daniel, when you describe that your rear of the io suspension is firm, does it "jump/bounce' when you drive on uneven surface?
Happy io
boucing rear...
Daniel, if it does get worse as the speed increase, and even worse in a turn. Mine does the same if I run high tyre pressure. I am NOT going to re-write a "tyre pressure thread". Tyre pressure is important, but my experience is that different tyres, even in the same size, have different property, especially in 4wd. For my car with my tyres this bouncing will appear around 35 psi, and are gone at 32 psi (this doesn't mean that 32 psi will be good for your car/tyres!)
As an experience, test, check your actual tyre pressure, chances are that they are over 32 psi, drop them at 28 psi and leave them for a few days and see the difference. After that, try increasing the tyre pressure by 2 psi at the time,
Of course you may have different problem, like worn shock absorber....or other....but if it didn't do it before your new tyres chances are good!....and it is easy to do ...and very cheap!
Happy io
The UK ...
I've just noticed on eBay that there is a UK spring supplier offering front and rear 'stock' springs to suit all different pinin models - 1.8 3door, 1.8 5 door, 2.0 3 and 5 etc. I think someone from that part of the world with a later model Pinin has the lower spring pan struts, so I'm thinking that it might almost be worth buying a set of springs from them which are brand new and installing them on my newer struts to see what happens. But that is a several hundred dollar gamble which I'm not really sure about!
Hopefully I'll find some used older springs to try and follow through with my plans soon!
There's quite a bit of suspension stuff available in the UK - not suspension lifts, but replacement parts - including new KYB springs, but for some reason, none of the local importers seem to want to bring stuff out of the UK.
I thought I had hit pay dirt when I found that RockAuto (in the US) had a listing for the Pinin and I could get the KYB front springs at around $65 each, not realising the significance of the note "stocked in a remote ware house, may take 2 days extra to ship" - turned out the "remote warehouse" was in the UK and in addition to the extra shipping time, it was going to cost $95 extra per spring, so my $135 springs had become $325 springs, and that did not include shipping from the US to Guyana.
I've seen standard springs advertised from time to time on these forums - in fact I think I recall a set available for the cost of shipping, which I didn't go after because of the cost of shipping to Guyana, so keep an eye out and you'll get what you need.
old suspension
I have been trying to find an old set of suspension, to try different thing and not having my car out of the road for too long... so far NO LUCK even offering money and pay for everything....I am disappointed, but I will survive!! and do thing differently, not easier but.......I just bought a $100 crappy old pulsar that I am going to fix and use it while my io is going out of the road....Once the io get back on the road, I will sell the pulsar...and make a bit of money at the same time...!
Happy io
outlander coiloers and struts
did some research today and found a fully adjustable coilover kit for an outlander. that may fit an io with the right mods.
i did some measuring between my outlander and my io and here is what i found.
models used were a 2003 Outlander LS and my 2002 Pajero iO ZR
the lower mounting brackets between the two vehicles are identical.
the spacing between the bolt holes for the io are 91-92.5mm whereas the spacing for the bolt holes for the outlander were 12-13mm. i did some rough measurements yes, but it was getting dark when i measured so it was hard to find the centre of the bolts.
All is not lost though. i figure you should be able to get someone to make a new tophat to suit the iO like Claudio has...
so without further adue. here it is
http://ksportusa.com/products/coilovers/kontrol-pro/
i suggest you read through it to get the gist of it...
they also have a gravel rally range, and they sell seperate parts, so im going to see if they can do the gravel rally lower mount as it is longer, for the standard kontrol pro struts.
but what would be even better though would be to see if someone may be able to measure, or find measurements of the vehicles that can take the Gravel Rally range of coilovers offered by the same company.
http://ksportusa.com/products/coilovers/rally-spec-gr/
exactly
Nice design....I like the fact that they have a lower adjustment to not loose the strut travel....smart...This is giving me food for thought....
Happy io
my thoughts exactly. my only concern is the actual shock travel that is available in the coilovers themselves. hopefully being for an outlander it isnt to bad. i have sent them an email regarding some of this info. hopefully thay can get back to me...
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Nice design....I like the fact that they have a lower adjustment to not loose the strut travel....smart...This is giving me food for thought....
Happy io
I might be mistaken here, but I thought you would still lose travel. If you wind it up so you get more hieght, wouldnt that put the strut closer to the top so you lose some downward travel of the wheel?
smaallll
the spacing between the bolt holes for the io are 91-92.5mm whereas the spacing for the bolt holes for the outlander were 12-13mm. i did some rough measurements yes, but it was getting dark when i measured so it was hard to find the centre of the bolts.
All is not lost though. i figure you should be able to get someone to make a new tophat to suit the iO like Claudio has...
12-13mm sound like a pretty damn small gap between the bolts on the tophat....
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I think that Daniel meant 120/130mm not 12/13 mm! or it could be a 1/10 copy toy...or other!
If I understood well, these strut have an adjustment for the spring (the 2 orange large nut) but they also have an adjustment for the bottom of the insert (the black large nut). I think that the main tube is in two section, the main body is have a fine thread, and it is threaded into the lower section of the strut, by doing this they can adjust the height on the insert.
That is ... if I understood :)
Happy io
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Yeah that would make more sense. Would not be hard to have someone replicate the top with the nuts closer in. Looks like a good option depending on the over all length.
Oh I see now, I knew there was something I was missing!
What seems to be simliar products on ebay, althought I am not familiar with outlander year models.
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I'm pretty sure glen's design was pretty much the same with the threaded bottom mount. It looks like there might almost be enough customers ready to buy for him to get a small run produced.
God yes, a IO specific setup designed by an IO owner would be ultimate.
I do enjoy doing my own work, but this suspension stuff is just getting crazy.
Claud I think it would be hard to find a local who will make a one of pair for much cheaper, but I could be wrong.
this is what i sent
this is what i sent them...
"Hi i'm looking at the kontrol pro coilovers for a 2003 mitsubishi outlander. http://www.ksportusa.com/b2c/proddetail.php?prod=CMT030-KP I have noticed that a lot of emphasis has been put on lowering the vehicle. What if i wanted to lift it? am i able to lift the vehicle from the lower mount? if so how far would i be able to lift it? as i see that the lower mount isnt very long as opposed to your gravel rally lower mounts. or would i be able to use gravel rally lower mounts on kontrol pro coilovers? Thankyou, Daniel P.S Sorry if i have confused you"
this is what i got back from them.
"Hi Daniel,
We only offer the Kontrol Pro coilover for that application. Unfortunately, it will not lift the vehicle higher than stock. They will lower it a minimum of 1”.
Regards,
Chris M.
KSport USA Suspension Company
Ph: 480.829.8100 / Fax: 480.829.8103
Web: www.ksportusa.com
Blog: http://ksportusa.com/kblog/"
whilst i understand them in regards to making their coilovers suited for lowering the vehicle, i cant see why we couldnt ask them to make us a longer lower mount in order for us to raise our suspension. or even finding someone to fabricate a longer lower mounting bracket for us so that we can wind the insert further up the mount.
OR
even if we kept the same length of threads, all we would need would be extensions on the bracket itself, like ando did for his vw coilovers... http://www.pajerio.com/forum/andos-shogun-pinin
CSUTOM/FABRICATION
i might give these guys a call or email them, and see if they can help us create some coilovers.
http://www.centrelinesuspension.com.au/about/
i think im going to ask them if they can fabricate a pair of these
all we really need from them is the lower mount bracket, tha tophat, the threaded sleeve and the threaded perches. i say ONLY because i figure instead of using their own adjustable shocks, we could use koni heavy track inserts, and the kings coilover springs like Glen has. let me know if i have confused you all. coz i think i might have... i almost confused myself.
the only problem is i would have to buy the konis first and work around the diameters of them. its basically a tube inside a tube inside another tube. now i know i have confused you lol...
Centreline Suspension
im really excited aout this company.
"Centreline suspension are also well know for there custom made coil over suspension kits manufactured in house by our qualified A grade mechanics for the older cars who no longer have coil overs available of shelf. With 25 years of experience we can optimize your cars full potential and reach limits in handling performance and capabilities. We offer corner weighting facilities also after installation for the true enthusiasts."
this was in their coilovers section on their website
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Would be interesting to see how their price compares against the one Claud got.
One note about the outlander suspention though, you might find that the stock outlander length is a few inchs longer then the stock io length? Althought having an outlander yourself you would probably know....
tube
Yes...too many tubes....confused...I was born that way:)
Well done
I think that what you are doing is great, and I am sure that you will find someone to help you/us. But mentioned the io and not another car. Once you find someone that doesn't mind to do what you want, it might be a good idea to send them a complete strut or get one of us to show the car. I like the idea of the coil over, but getting them done by someone was to my taste a bit $$$.
I might share my idea for my io....
My idea was to do the coil over myself, with no adjustable level for the insert, fit the koni insert with 50 mm spacer at the bottom of them, and a 30/40mm higher spring, using my strut (or another set that I couldn't/didn't get). This way, I thought that I would get 30/40 mm lift and an extra 20/10 mm down travel (50-30/40) with the possibility to lift it more 20/30mm if needed (for some tough tracks!!) and still have a reasonable down travel left. You can get, as Glen mentioned, a standard coil over kit that can be fitted on most 50 mm diameter strut. This system is not as good as what you found, but should be cheaper. The coil over would be good for me as they are using narrower spring and I could adjust further the caster and camber angle with my adjustable plate (the larger, original, spring would touch the body if I get any more adjustment)
The fine tuning of this still need to be work out....such as what spring, where exactly to do the welding to hold the coil over, camber adjustment....
I am still waiting for 2 others mod to happen and my suspension is not on the "do it now" list :)
Happy io.
More bad news. Maybe
On top of my other issues, my mechanic said my struts are seeping and will need to be replaced 'soon'. I told him that I'm looking at konis and he's keen to have a go at fitting them and seeing how they go. So, once I get all these repairs done (hopefully), I'll be even more on the lookout for a set of older front coils!
I'll get there eventually!
koni inserts on stock struts...
My idea was to do the coil over myself, with no adjustable level for the insert, fit the koni insert with 50 mm spacer at the bottom of them, and a 30/40mm higher spring, using my strut (or another set that I couldn't/didn't get). This way, I thought that I would get 30/40 mm lift and an extra 20/10 mm down travel (50-30/40) with the possibility to lift it more 20/30mm if needed (for some tough tracks!!) and still have a reasonable down travel left. You can get, as Glen mentioned, a standard coil over kit that can be fitted on most 50 mm diameter strut. This system is not as good as what you found, but should be cheaper. The coil over would be good for me as they are using narrower spring and I could adjust further the caster and camber angle with my adjustable plate (the larger, original, spring would touch the body if I get any more adjustment)
ive researched and thought about this option also. if i cant ge these coilovers to work. i think im going to do the same... or see if centreline can help me do it this way
outlander
Would be interesting to see how their price compares against the one Claud got.
One note about the outlander suspention though, you might find that the stock outlander length is a few inchs longer then the stock io length? Althought having an outlander yourself you would probably know....
i'm not sure actually. i should probably measure it..
Syndicate
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I cant find the post but one of the Brazil guys has l200(triton) shocks on the back. I keep meaning to go check out the local wreckers for some.
My dobinsons springs ride high is higher then stock, but its extended length is the same as the originals. So I plan on using some coil spacers with the extended shocks for an extra inch or two in the back.
Keep in mind the stock panhard rod will limit your left hand sides travel to that of the standard suspension no matter how much lift you put on. Once I am happy with my lift I plan on cutting that bad boy in half and placing a metal rod in the V of the panhard and welding it in to centre it all again. There is a topic in the suspension section about it all also.