GDI engine oils
I was browsing the net this evening and came across a post in another Mitsubishi forum that indicated there were engine oils specifically formulated for use with the GDI engines ...
Shell Helix Plus AH & Castrol Performance GDI
I was able to find details on the Shell Helix
Does your Excel have a GDI engine?
I'm not looking to get into another discussion on either synthetic oils, or extended oil change intervals - the point here is that the gasolene direct injection engines have specific lubricant requirements, and that Shell markets an oil formulated for Mitsubishi's GDI engines.
If you've driven half a million klicks in an Excel powered by a direct injection engine then I'd be happy to hear about it, presumably it's a Hyundai Excel, Hyundai did license the technology from Mitsubishi, but I don't think it was used on the Excel.
Greetings - I hope you can
Greetings - I hope you can help. Shell HX 7 AJ? is not available in New Zealand.
What would be the best alternative of the following stocked oils?
Fully synthetic 5W30 or 5W40. or 10W40
The only option i have for 10W30 seem to be mineral based oils which I believe would be unsuited to the GDI engine.
There is another option by Fuchs - http://www.fuchs.com.au/categories.asp?cID=9 would any of these be suited? I find it hard to get past the "sales" spiel on the website..
Thanks
MG
??
Why would you believe a 10w30 mineral oil is unsuited to the GDI engine? I believe that's exactly what Mitsubishi specifies for it.
Personally I will not run a full synthetic in anything I currently own - I refuse to use extended oil change intervals, and as a result I consider the additional expense to be unjustified - still - it's your car, it's your choice.
As far as the grades go - the selection should be determined based on the ambient temperatures you're driving in - the 5WX oils will flow better in cold weather, the XW40 oils will provide greater protection at higher temperatures, oils with a lower spread between the two numbers (5w30 has a spread of 25, 10w30 has a spread of 20, 10w40 has a spread of 30, 5w40 has a spread of 35) are in my opinion preferable - multigrade oils are created by starting with the lower visocity oil (the number before the w) and VI (viscosity improvers) are added to bring the oil up to the higher grade (the number after the w), the greater the spread, the more VI additives used, VI additives breakdown over time.
In the year or so I've owned my GDI engined Pajero iO, I've used mineral 10w40, the previous owner would also have used a mineral oil, most likely a 10w30.
Because the GDI engine injects the fuel directly into the combustion chamber like a diesel engine does, it places different requirements on the lubricating oils, some of which are similar to that of a diesel engine, one of which is the need to be able to hold soot in suspension - for this reason, I have recently started using a 15w40 "all fleet" oil with a CF (diesel engine) and SM (gasolene engine) rating - it's too soon to say it it makes a significant difference.
Thanks for the swift and
FORDEM - Thanks for the swift and complete response.
My reasoning for the use of a fully syntheitc oil is based on the first line of the document you posted as being the optimal product for use in the gdi engine. The first line sates that the oil is a fully synthetic.
My takeaway from all this is that you match the oil to the climate and that the GDI is not overly sensitive to weight, therefore a good quality 10W40 changed frequrently - say every 6ooo KM is one way to go. If i can find one marketed as suited to both diesel and petrol applications it would be preffered due to ability to 'suspend' particulates from the combustion process, and the added detergent package will help from a cleaning perspective.
MG
As I mentioned earlier
I prefer to change frequently - it gets rid of the contaminants that the filter cannot remove (like the soot), and renews the additive package (the visocsity improvers & other anti-wear additives) and as a result, the additional expense of the full sythetic can be justified - I did on another vehicle, experiment with full synthetic & also synthetic blends, just not worth the extra in my opinion.
Synthetic oil
I think that synthetic oil are a much better quality oil, and using it should have your engine last longer. I don't think that you can see or feel any difference in a short period of time, but only in long term.
This said, I am no expert in oil....
Happy io
I was hoping this thread would not go in this direction.
Question for you Claude - what is a synthetic oil? The answer might surprise you - it's now a marketing term - nothing more than "hype"
Once upon a time (sorry if this sounds like a fairy tale), you could define a synthetic oil as an oil that was synthesized or created in a laboratory by combining hydrogen & carbon atoms to form, so to speak the "perfect hydrocarbon", with just the properties you needed - if I'm not mistaken, there is only one such oil available for automotive use.
The majority of synthetic blend & so called full synthetic motor oils available over the counter come out of the ground, out of the exact same holes as the conventional mineral oils.
I leave it to those of you who are interested to find further details on this "scam" yourselves - a good place to start is to do a google search on the keywords "Mobil vs Castrol" - I'm sure you'll find the reading very informative.
The question you need to ask yourself is this - what are you getting in the synthetic (be it full synthetic or a synthetic blend) that you wouldn't get in a conventional oil, and is it worth the price differential.
I am VERY surprise
Question for you Claude - what is a synthetic oil? The answer might surprise you - it's now a marketing term - nothing more than "hype"
Are you sure? ?
Again, I am NO expert in oil, but I don't think that synthetic oil is a marketing term or a "hype" and yes your comment does surprise me!!
But as always, I could be wrong...ask my wife!...
Happy io.
Have a read ....
I stopped by the Shell station this morning.
Well, I have gone for some shell hx7 10w40. Thanks for all the input. I Will report back on how it compares to the castrol edge 5w30 That is in it at the moment.
Shell here aren't Shell, they're actually SOL Petroleum (Simpson Oil Limited, owned by the Simpson Group in Barbados), and use the Shell trademarks, under license to Shell (whatever that means) - but anyway - I stopped to fill the tank, and took the opportunity to read the labels on the Helix bottles - they're all CF/SL or CF/SN rated, so they are suitable for use in both diesel & gasolene engines - which is not something that I can say for the Valvoline oils which I've been using for the past two or three years.
SOL also bought the local Exxon/Mobil distribution network, but apparently have no license to use their trademarks so Mobils oils are no longer available.
I use Shell fuels and was using Shell oils up until the SOL buyout, when things went topsy turvy with the availability of the oils - the grades I wanted just weren't available forcing me to look elsewhere - the situation has changed, but rumor has it that the oils aren't actually Shell products, but are being blended in the neighboring island of Trinidad
have a read
I understand what you said now, but that just make the maker of Castrol syntec some bad boys but does not make synthetic oil bad. If I sell banana made out of dog shit, banana will still be a great fruit, but just not mine! just read the sticker! (made from dog shit!)
Have a read, from your source! but I agree to disagree!
http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/myths-of-synthetic-oils/
Happy io (the end for me on that one...lol...)
If I continue using your analogy ...
the problem would be that in order to remain price competitive, all the other major banana growers have adopted your formula, and only Chiquita are still selling genuine bananas.
As you would have seen in that article, independent laboratory testing has shown that Castrol Syntec is 100% mineral oil, but every one else, including Mobil are using Group III oils as the base for their so called synthetic oils, with I am told, one single exception.
So tell me Claude - are you buying Chiquita bananas or ...
Sooo
If we accept there are benefits, shouldnt the decision be about those vs cost rather than technically how those benefits are achieved in the lab? Would it be better if they just dropped the word 'synthetic' and sold it as more expensive and higher performing oil?
Edit to add - I realise this doesn't directly address your point Fordem but I am thinking the decision on which oil and how long between changes should be about tested performance rather than chemical composition.
That opens a different can of worms.
Let's assume you're going to make the decision on which oil and the oil change interval based on tested performance - how do you plan to run these tests - or - are you going to relay on tests & reviews by other people.
The life of the oil in your engine, regardless of chemical composition, is going to be determined by a number of things, some of which can & will vary depending on the vehicle, it's location and usage patterns and the driver and his driving style.
Look at your owner's manual, it most likely has different recommendations for oil, based on ambient temperature and also different recommendations for oil change intervals with a normal schedule and a severe usage schedule - with the severe usage schedule being determined by such factors as a) towing, b) repeated short trips, c) driving on dusty roads, d) driving in extremely cold weather, e) repeated short trips in extremely cold weather - if your individual driving requirements fall into one of these five categories, your recommended oil change interval is shortened.
I point this out so that you understand, wha was right for the reviewer may not be right for you - you need to do your own tests.
Oil analysis is one way to determine, without having to risk excessive engine wear, if your choice of oil and oil change interval (OCI) is right for you - the problem with oil analysis is that it requires a lab, which may not be available and it costs money - if there's a lab that can perform the analysis near you, find out what they charge and compare that to the cost of an oil & filter change.
Consider this cost analysis scenario.
You buy a new car, and after you complete running it in, you decide you're going to use oil analysis to ensure that you use the best oil and that it is changed at appropriate intervals - you'll have to determine which oil is best based on a number of tests where you run the oil for a given distance and then sample it and look for the presence of metals from the engine's bearings, cylinders, etc. and change the ol & filter, using the next available oil until you have established which oil you wish to use - I believe by now you've seen that this is going to be a time consuming & expensive process for the individual.
Let's assume you have selected a brand of oil and move onto determining the best OCI - you drive to the recommended OCI and then sample the oil and have it analyzed - for the sake of discussion you're running a synthetic, and the lab results show that you can continue to use the oil - the lab will usually suggest a "re-sample" interval, so you drive until that point and resample - this time around, they suggest you change.
You can now continue in this cycle paying the lab to analyze your oil, or you can call it quits on the analysis and start guessing at when the oil needs to be changed.
What has it cost you? Two sets of sample fees, plus the cost of an oil change. What have you saved? On the average automotive engine, I believe you'll find the oil analysis route cost you more than if you had simply changed the oil & filter at the recommended OCI, and repeated this process every time the OCI elapsed.
Oil analysis makes sense when you're running a 7000 hp turbo diesel with a sump capacity of a few hundred litres, but when you're talking 3.75 litres on a 4G93, I'd say it's not worth it.
Bottom line - for me - this is not a turbo charged, high performance, high priced sports car with a high resale value - it's probably going to get me to 200,000 kms whether I use conventional oil & change every 5000kms or synthetics and change every 10,000kms - I'll go with what's least expensive - and please note I did not say cheapest, the 15w40 CF/SM rated all fleet oil I'm running in the iO's GDI engine costs more than the 10w40 SN rated conventional oil that I use in the other vehicles - which takes us back to the original subject of the thread - that the GDI engines have specific lubrication requirements, in many ways similar to those of a diesel engine, because the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber - which is why I'm using an oil marketed for both diesel & gasolene engines.
Synthetics revisited???
In a discussion thread on oil flushes & cleaning additives, in another forum, someone drew my attention to the fact that Mobil had ceased production of their AV1 full synthetic oil (intended for use in aircraft piston engines), and are "quietly settling" with affected aircraft owners & operators - Google research indicates that Amsoil has also discontinued their full synthetic AVOIL - some internet debates suggest that the oils were used in engines for which they were not approved, and also that they were discontinued because of the cost of liability insurance.
The problem appears to have been one of lead sludging on infrequently used, owner flown aircraft, along with extended oil change intervals (Mobil was touting a 200 hr OCI at a time when the norm was 50) and I will be the first to acknowledge that aviation fuel still uses tetraethyl lead as an additive, and that automotive fuel doesn't, making lead sludging unlikely to be a problem on the ground.
There are a couple of reasons why I am mentioning this - the first being that it calls into question, the ability of synthetic oils to hold contaminants in suspension, and since one of the recommedations for moving away from the affected oils was to drain & refill with a 100% petroleum based oil because of it's ability to scavenge the lead deposits.
What this says to me is that synthetics may not be as good as they are hyped.
Syndicate
The Helix Plus is now obsolete
Shell apparently discontinued the old Helix (conventional), Helix Plus (synthetic blend) & Helix Ultra (full synthetic) offerings a few years back, replacing them with Helix HX3 (conventional), Helix HX5 (synthetic blend) & HX7 (full synthetic) - the GDI specific replacement for the Helix Plus AH is Helix HX7 AU