King Springs Lift Help!!!
Hi Guys,
New to the forum and would really appreciate a hand!
I have a 2002 LWB Pajero IO 2.0L and am looking at trying to lift her!
[pic related is my model etc]
I have read a lot about options depending upon your struts and as far as I know my paj has the new struts (2002 model, will measure after work and take pics) that are bigger and hold a shorter spring in the front. Reading other posts on this forum has got me a little mixed up as I have heard the King Springs work on the old struts well but not on the new ones or the new ones witht he old struts/old ones with the new struts!!
A lot of this confusion has lead to me becoming a member and posting on this forum! Also if anyone is from AUS / Brisbane can you please help us out! Would love a reply here or IRL help.
Not looking to drop the diff (depending how hard it was) but mainly looking to use a spring lift and/or spacers! If we have come to a conclusion for the best way to lift my model of Pajero can you guy's please let us know!
Cheers
Simmo
Arrr cheers for quick
Arrr cheers for quick response!
Are strut extenders a good option? Would they be something that could easily be fitted to the struts? I am assuming also that this will be the case with both front and rear suspension?
I am almost sure that my model has the newer struts however I will be checking in the next few hours! I know for a fact that mine atm are VERY sagged, got the paj off my Grandad who never took her offroad however the bounce off the current springs is really big and when it sits next to other stock IO’s of its model/vintage it looks noticablly lower. Maybe the 25mm stock replacement King springs + the sag it would take up would be enough? Depends just how hard the strut extensions are going to be!
Also what are your thoughts on spacers for body lift?? And diff drop to save my CV’s?
Cheers
confused...
Welcome to the forum...confuse regarding the suspension of the io is unfortunately widely spread!!!
Some suspension manufacturers don't even know about the 2 different strut/spring. But you came to the right place....lol....
My advice:
For your lift, first, you need to know by how much you want/need to lift the car. If you lift the car by 25 mm you won't have any problem with anything like wheel drop, cv joint, angles, car wandering...no matter how you do it. (as long as you have the correct part)
Bigger tyres are an option too.
Give it some time, read as much as you can, this will make you very well aware, and hopefully you will end up with the set up YOU want....
I almost forgot...check my built thread...of course:) sorry lift yet to come !!
Happy io
Thanks man! Very
Thanks man! Very confused 
Seen a lot of posts from you guy's on the other lift threads! Yes yes yes a lot of shops have NO idea what your going on about when you go in talking about a later model strut and certain springs..
I do want to lift it more then 25mm I would really like to go with the 50mm from the King springs with the strut extensions?? I would really liek to go the 50mm with the current strut set up but would liek to know how to go about extensions??
Also hoppinh yo fit 225/75/16's under once the springs and extension are on, your thoughts>
Cheers!
Worn Struts
! I know for a fact that mine atm are VERY sagged, got the paj off my Grandad who never took her offroad however the bounce off the current springs is really big and when it sits next to other stock IO’s of its model/vintage it looks noticablly lower. Maybe the 25mm stock replacement King springs + the sag it would take up would be enough?
A larger than normal "bounce" suggests worn struts, rather than sagging springs - however - if the ride height is visible lower than other iOs, your springs may also be defective - you probably need to replace both the struts & the springs.
Extenders
And when you replace the struts, keep the old ones to make the strut extenders. See Singlecell or NZIO's posts on how to do this.
Try here first:
http://www.pajerio.com/forum/nzio-front-rear-lift-was-raised-rear-spring...
Hi from the gold coast
Hi,
you've basically got it, new style and old style struts are the same with the only difference being the newer model has the bottom spring perch mounted 25mm higher to give more clearance to front tyres.
Newer models run springs that are basically the same but are 25mm shorter to compensate.
Rear suspension is pretty much unchanged and based spring length is based on lwb/swb engine capacity and only varies 10mm or so.
Problem with kings and dobinsons etc is that the front lift springs are often designed for the old struts and are too long for the newer models resulting in an awesome lift but your struts top-out and damage the top bearing.
I'm looking at running kings in the rear and sourcing some standard old style springs for my front to give a mild lift.
If you're keen to catch up I live on mt tamborine.
Bob
Hi Bob, ahhh thats good to
Hi Bob,
ahhh thats good to hear!
hmmmmm I really don't know if I can be bothered stuffing around with extenders when singlecell says stock king springs will still give 25mm lift without having to use extensions, becasue that plus tyres (going from 215 65 16 to 225 75 16) will give 25mm lift in springs and ~2 inches bigger tyre which will add another 2.53mm to the tyre diametre giving in theory a lift of just over 50mm just from tyres & stock king springs. Which will put all terrain muddies on my paj with new springs giving 50mm for cheap! (have a good tyre guy ;) )
Keen for a 4wd mate round Brissy somewhere maybe woodford powerlines once I lift n put tyres on my paj bob! ALSO! How did you go about rear air lockers for your diff from ARB I saw from your build thread!!? Would be a costly investment I am presuming?
But for another thing i found out the other day is that I definetly have the newer struts, measured up :( but the bigger king springs would fit the back correct? but max the top bearing out on the front struts, but what if in theory the bigger king springs (not stock) that do max out were cut 25mm short to compensate the higher spring pan? (not an engineering / spring ethusiast, just a guy with a theory) I know I have some less then intelligent street car friends that chop their springs beyond belief! but would that work in this case? Or just order shorter springs some how?
Your help is much appreciated guys!
Cheers
Simmo
Woodford powerlines
How about chucking a trip up for one weekend to check out the glass house mountains powerline tracks, KTM lives north side, might be keen too!
even in stock form the io is pretty good! might be worth doing it as is and seeing how much you need to mod it.
I'm free most weekends after the 9th december
Hi Bob, YES! Keen to hit up
Hi Bob,
YES! Keen to hit up the powerlines! Myself and a few mates went in from the woodford entrance only a few weekends ago, and the only reason i didn't take my IO was because it had been raining and only got highway tread on :( (want to put AT-M when lifted!) The tracks are deemed "illegal" apperently however there are only hidden camera's around the Mt Mee forestry!
But very keen to hit those tracks up with KTM and yourself! The FJ cruiser club was there when we were there last time, and boy was it good to see them get stuck when we got through the same tracks in a suzuki, stock BT50 and hilux. Would even go this weekend? Or just after december 9. I will make a post/trip based on now whether your keen for this weekend or closer to mid december.
Anyone else that wants to tag along/go on a trip this weekend or in the coming weeks just yell out/messege us and we will make a group post!
ALSO! I will email king springs tomorrow and post the results of whether or not they can custome fabricate the coils of the FRONT:- KMFS-900 30mm lift but take into consideration of the new struts with the 25mm higehr spring pan.
Cheers
Simmo
Talk to your friends first
But for another thing i found out the other day is that I definetly have the newer struts, measured up :( but the bigger king springs would fit the back correct? but max the top bearing out on the front struts, but what if in theory the bigger king springs (not stock) that do max out were cut 25mm short to compensate the higher spring pan? (not an engineering / spring ethusiast, just a guy with a theory) I know I have some less then intelligent street car friends that chop their springs beyond belief! but would that work in this case? Or just order shorter springs some how?
You might want to have a chat with your street car friends before proceeding as planned.
If I'm right (and I have absolutely ZERO experience cutting springs, although I've swapped a few), it's not going to be as easy as chopping off 25mm - you'll have to figure out how much spring (in terms of turns) gives you 25mm of lift - usually through a process of trial & error - measure the ride height, remove the spring, cut it, reinstall and measure again, and then repeat. Cut too much, get another spring and start over - or - fit a spacer to compensate.
On an iO, you will have the advantage that one seat (the top) is flat, allowing you to cut off less than a full turn without having to worry about the spring sitting correctly in the spring chair.
The other thing to be aware of is that a cut spring results in an increased spring rate (the same weight supported by fewer coils) and a harsher ride.
I would like to think that Kings (if they do custom springs) might be persuaded to create a spring for you with 25mm less lift - in theory they just tell the computer to wind the coils a little closer together - at least one of the threads here mentions returning springs and having them 'reset' to get around the problem.
I will second
If you desire to use the kingspring, I will second Fordem, in that Kingspring should make the proper spring for your io. If you contact Kingspring directly, and explain the problem (one spring listed, while they are two different strut), they know the problem and should supply you with the good spring (25 mm lift or so) for your io. This should save you some "theory" action.
By shortening the spring, the bigger risk is that the spring will come of his position when the strut is in full extension, this does happen a lot on a 4x4 (even more on the io)....could be very dangerous.....the higher the load rating of the spring, the more chance you have to loose you shortened spring.
Happy io
Hi Claude, Yes I will email
Hi Claude,
Yes I will email king directly tomorrow if not head down to their store on the weekend!
Hopefully they will be able to make up a lift best suited for the new IO or get them to reset their current IO springs like previously mentioned 2 up. I would definetly like to see more then a 25mm lift from the springs however and somewhere like 40mm (the 30mm lift + at least 10mm sag) from the bigger king springs so I can put a set of AT-M 225/75/16's under which will push the lift close to 50/60mm. That would be my dream! a 40mm lift from springs without having to bugger around with struts/extensions! I am now hoping king springs comes back and is like "Yeah because we wasted so many peoples time and $$$ selling them the old springs to new IO struts as advertised... we have already designed and made a 30mm spring for your new strut that is readily available"
Would be sweet.
Cheers
Simmo
lift
I'm a bit late coming to this discussion - and Simmo apologies for not replying to your message, looks like things have moved on since then anyway.
Only comment to the above I would make is that in my opinion any more than 25-30mm spring lift needs strut extenders or some other change to compensate for the loss of droop.
Any suspension lift of 50mm or more needs the diff to be dropped (actually it's the whole engine and diff that gets dropped) or else your driveshafts will get chewed up or fall out (I don't think that's what you're planning, just saying while we're on the subject...).
Cheers
Hi NZIO, So if I just get the
Hi NZIO,
So if I just get the old style springs for my new struts or the stock King Springs I would pick up an inch without affecting the strut or CV's?
If I DO get a feedback from king springs and they will make a spring with 30mm lift that will fit the new strut, will putting 225/75/15's (~29inch depending upon brand) on affect the cv/suspension set up in anyway? because If i go with these tyres that are two inches bigger then stock it will give 1 extra inch on the diametre yes? Which will in fact lift the car from the wheels another inch, and if it won't affect the suspension set up I would probably be happy to get stocky king springs with those tyres which would equal 50mm lift (give or take some sag)???
hahaha don't worry about being late and I really would hope this situation would be sorted out soon but I have to sell my other car before I will be in a $$$ position to fund my tyres and lift! But knowing what I need to do to get desired lift is on the 'to do list'
Cheers
Simmo
Wheels
Did you mean 16" wheels? I think someone has fitted some 15" steel wheels, but it is a close call with the front brake caliper clearance.
Most of us are looking to source stock 'old' springs with 'new struts for the ~25mm lift, and yes putting on 29" tyres is most people's first mod giving an extra 1"at the diffs and 2" total at the chassis with little adverse affect on the road.
It took me almost a year, but I finally managed to find my reasonably priced 'old' springs, and the mazda astina springs for the rear, so one day... when I get around to it... I'll have mine set up how I want it.
In the mean time, my shocks need replacing, so I'm looking into Koni inserts to give extra down travel by inserting a 25-30mm spacer in the bottom of the strut. This will cost a fair bit, so I'm just biding my time til I go ahead with it.
Hope this helps! :)
springs and rims
Simmo, to answer your first question - yes stock old springs or King springs will give 25-30mm which in my opinion leaves you enough droop to be getting around with OK and no other mods required.
I should have clarified the cv problems only really come in when you fit spacers and extenders because these increase the downward range of wheel movement relative to the diff, therefore the maximim angle the driveshafts can be put to. With 50mm extenders, 25mm spacers and 25mm diff drop my driveshafts at full droop are 50mm lower than stock relative to the diff (50+25-25=50). So far so good, but I've only done a few thousand kms with this setup and cv failure could be just around the corner for all I know.
I looked at a couple of 15" alloy rims but they didn't fit, however I was told by another NZ io owner (not on this forum) that he fitted 15" alloy rims off a ford falcon, can't recall the model - '90s era I think - but may be worth trying a few if you've got a ford wrecker handy.
.
I looked at a couple of 15" alloy rims but they didn't fit, however I was told by another NZ io owner (not on this forum) that he fitted 15" alloy rims off a ford falcon, can't recall the model - '90s era I think - but may be worth trying a few if you've got a ford wrecker handy.
The 15" rims of the brand/offset I bought would also fit I am told. Unfortunately I was told while I was picking up the 16s.
AHHHH YES 16INCH* Apologies!
AHHHH YES 16INCH*
Apologies! 225/75/16
Thank you both for your posts! It looks like I will be buying the stock King Springs and putting them on my new struts to give the 25-30mm lift because they are meant for the older strut lower spring pan IO's. Accompanied with the 29inch All Terrain Muddies.. Will be putting pictures up when done after King Springs gets back to me about a slightly higher then standard spring for the new strut IO's but not the current ones advertised as they are WAY too big.
Cheers!
Simmo
Syndicate
.
If you use those springs on your newer style struts you will get around 50mm lift but they will almost be maxed out to the top. So you will get all sorts of banging while driving around.
If you want 50mm lift you need those springs and you need to have strut extenders like myself or NZIO has, there are a couple of posts around with info on them.
If your happy with a 25mm lift, you get purchase the stock length springs from king springs and use them in your struts, they will be 25mm longer then your current ones as they are the stock length of the old style suspension. You wont need entenders for these.