Negative camber front wheels ?
For quite a while I have been puzzled by the fact that my iO has (or rather had) noticeable negative camber on the front wheels. Initially I put it down to the front control arm bushes, but I have since replaced those with no improvement. I've been over every inch of the front suspension with a pry bar, I found nothing loose (other than the bushes) or obviously bent or out of place, so I fitted a pair of Ingalls Engineering fastcam camber bolts which have all but eliminated the negative camber, reducing it to the point where it is no longer visible to the naked eye - it may actually be within spec., but I have yet to get it aligned - but - using a 24" level and high school math, I estimate it to be equal on both sides (it wasn't before) and to be - 0* 30'.
Now - not being able to find a worn, bent or otherwise damaged suspension component has led me to suspect that there may be some sag or flex in the body, which is not uncommon with MacPherson strut front ends on unibody vehicles - which is why there is a plethora of strut braces on the market for these vehicles.
Here's my question - you knew one was coming - right? Does your iO have noticeable negative camber? Park it on a level surface and stand about 10 feet in front of it - do the front wheels look like they are upright or is there a "top-in" lean? I looked at two today - one had no noticeable lean, and the other - well it was obvious from behind the vehicle. I'm going to be looking at more iOs, it I can, as I pass them on the street.
I'll be putting my mind to an upper strut brace, but the GDI engine has a large plenum over the top of the engine so there's not that much space available.
I figured someone would mention Ultra Racing
When I mentioned a strut bar in that post I was pretty certain that someone would mention Ultra Racing - I'm not certain I would buy any of their products - simply put, the benefit they provide is questionable..
Here's their lower front bar for the 98 iO
That crossmember is designed to support the weight of the vehicle - Mitsubishi even shows it as a recommended jack point for lifting the entire front end of the vehicle - it is NOT going to flex under cornering forces,
This, unfortunately, is not an isolated case, I first came across their product for another brand of vehicle and was equally unimpressed by the engineering there - some of their stuff maybe decent, but a lot of it is just unnecessary bling.
Sorry about the rant and thanks for letting me know about the camber on your car.
Yep - some of their strut braces look decent - but ...
That's not hard to do - there are some crap strut braces out there - I had a look at the upper strut brace they do for the iO and it will reduce flex - it's not a bad design, but there is room for improvement.
The big problem I have is that once I have started to doubt the quality of your engineering ...
I may have discovered the cause of the negative camber
Yesterday, as I was leaving home after lunch, I looked back at the car, parked alongside the house, and could see that there was more negative camber on the right front wheel than on the left, and realised that it is most likely caused by sagging springs - because I was 30 feet or so away, I could see the control arms and could see that they were at different angles relative to the ground - as the arm becomes closer to horizontal it effectively becomes longer, pushing the bottom of the wheel outward and the camber becomes increasingly negative.
This is a known characteristic of the macpherson strut system and perhaps highlights one of several "shortcomings" in the design of the iO's front end - it's essentially a passenger car front end, rather than an off road vehicle - the control arms are relatively short and as a result must swing through a greater angle than a longer arm would, to achieve a reasonable suspension travel.
If one of you guys has an unmolested iO, could you measure the ride height for me please - not from the ground - from the lower edge of the rim, along a line through the center of the wheel, to the wheel arch above - doing it this way eliminates the tire size & pressure as possible variables in the measurement.
655 mm, on both side, and 660
655 mm, on both side, and 660 on the rear. Tape sitting on the edge of the rim.
It might be good to do a wheel aligment on your car and mesured the included angle/steering axis inclination...If you have bought the car second hand, it may have some everyday wear, but it could have been in a accident, and while it might look perfect, panel wise, you might have some unseen/not visible damage. If you go that way, make sure that you talk/explain to the person that is going to work on your car, or he could just do a quick toe set and not a full research. And that should not cost too much.
All the best, and I hope that you will solve that camber pb, let us know.
Thanks.
Thanks Claude
My car is 655 on it's lowest corner - the right front and 690 on the highest - the left rear - your car is a 3 door, perhaps I need to compare to a 5 door.
I did buy the car used, and I am aware that it has been in an accident - in terms of every day wear & tear, I have been over it with a fine tooth comb (at least the front end) and the only things I need to deal with (from a suspension wear stand point) are the springs & shocks/struts. As far as an alignment goes - I did have it aligned when I changed the control arm bushes, but there's not much point when you can see the ride height changing and with it the SAI - this morning the difference in rideheight at the front was 10mm, two days ago it was 25mm, I'll take a bet when I go down to put the car away it's changed again.
As I said earlier I suspect the springs.
Just measured it again.
I put the car in the yard and measured - 645 - RF, 665 - LF, 690 - LR, 680 - RR - I have spent literally hours on a creeper under that car, going over the front end time & time again looking for sideways play that could account for the variations in camber - the only possible place you can get sideways movement is in the control arm pivot bushes, the ball joints or the strut tops - I replaced the pivot bushes and inspected the ball joints & strut tops.
It has to be the ride height variation.
I mentioned knowing the vehicle - well - maybe I should mention the previous driver probably topped 150 kilos - that might account for the sag on the driver's side.
Anyway - I think new springs, at least for the front, and shocks & struts all around will be on the list for next year - I can get Monroe Adventure series shocks for the rear, unfortunately they don't do anything for the front - so I'm still searching - springs - I dunno yet.
front strut
I think that is the best, it might be good to recheck the SAI when you have the new spring fitted (without your camber bolt on). In some case it is impossible to see if the strut itself is slightly bent. I am not sure if you had trouble finding strut or spring, but for the strut there are a few info, with some ref, in the "suspension, tires, brakes" in post number 4.
And again, all the best...
Different Springs?
The manual talks about right hand drive vehicles having different springs left and right (to account for the weight of the driver??).
Perhaps at some stage the front springs have been installed in opposite sides by mistake? It says left hand drive vehicles have the same springs in both sides, though this is the european pinin manual, so who knows if it applies to the rest of us...
Thanks Natsterrr
That's really interesting - I had noticed that the front springs had different part numbers but not paid any further attention to it. I doubt that the springs have been swapped, although I will admit to wondering what would happen if I did - this based on knowing that spring manufacturers like OME supply springs marked for driver side & passenger side. I have also considered adding some sort of "packing" to the low side - but the fact that the "degree" of sag varies constantly creates the challenge of deciding how much to pack it by.
I'm currently of the opinion that swapping the coils left~right is too much work - swapping the entire strut assembly would be quicker than stripping them, I took apart the left side a couple of weeks back and was quite surprised at how long & soft the spring was - I had to reposition the spring compressors (a distinctly scary task) and even then reassembly was a bit of a challenge.
spring left or right
I was just doing my front brakes, and I have seen some colour marking on the top of the spring, facing the outside of the car. the left one has a orange dot, and the right one has a blue dot.
I should have my new 225/75/16 km2 this afternoon, I hope that they will be good...
And again...Happy io...
The parts catalogue identified the springs by color
I noticed, whilst looking at the parts catalogue, that the springs were identified by color, however, I have had the left spring out of my car, and don't recall any color markings on it, of course I wasn't looking for markings and everything was quite dirty - I could take a closer look.
Mine are blue & pink (5dr, 1.8 GDI)
I took the strut assemblies out this morning - the left side because I had noticed a "creaking" coming from it on tight turns since I had worked on it and wanted to recheck my work, and the right side because, when I went to check the part number on the strut, I noticed that the upper spring seat was not in line with the lower spring seat.
It was not until I had disassembled & was reassembling the struts that I found the paint markings - second turn from the top, blue on the left (passenger), pink on the right (driver) - the blue has been painted over, but can be seen from above, and I found that because I checked the same place that the pink on the other spring was.
I also noticed something I consider quite unusual - the top of strut piston rod has a D shaped section that passes through a matching hole in the upper spring seat and then through the bearing in the strut mount - the inner diameter of the bearing is a very loose fit on the piston rod - I didn't measure it, but I'd estimate as much as 1~2mm play. This allows the strut mount to sit at an angle on the piston rod, so I left the nut a turn or two loose, and after reinstalling the struts, put a jack under the balljoint and lifted that side of the car off of the jack stand before tightening fully - the idea being to allow the assembly to find it's own rest position.
Syndicate
negative camber
Hi,
my wheels look dead upright, "Ultra racing" in maylasia make a strut brace for the Io, not sure if it will clear the GDI plenum however it could be a good start as it is cheap ($100AU)
I've been meaning to buy one for ages now, even if just for looks
.