OK..that sucks. Broke my strut.
OK...finally some pics to
OK...finally some pics to show (P.S. ... the Light Force 240 Blitz are off ATM while they recieve the HID treatment).
Bit disappointed to be honest. The thing sits dead level which doesn't allow for the weight of kids and stuff in the back. Need to gain about an inch at the rear. Have included pics to show tyre (215/65/16...at the moment) to spring perch clearance. Another of the inside tyre to strut clearance. And one to show the steering angles.
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Looks good level, pitty how the back sags with weight in it. My rear is much higher then my front atm, I will be getting new front springs this week sometime. Hopefully that will bring the front up closer to the rear.
No worries!, I had a smile while reading Singlecell with mounting the plate upside down. So to make him feel better, I have to tell you a nice silly one that I have done. When I received the K-mac adjustable bearing plates, they gave me the wrong nuts to bolt on the strut (the old one fitted but wasn't the best fitting). I had to pick up my wife at the airport in Sydney. K-mac is close to the airport, so I took off one nut and took it to K-mac to have the right one for the plates. We came back very late. In the morning I took the io to go to work, down the driveway, some noise, some more noise...I forgot to put the nut back on....I have managed to line up the plate, and the bearing and the strut shaft and got the nuts back on, but that was a bit stressful and I got 20mm late at work...I hope that Singlecell is feeling better now:), and yes you can smile...
haha, but in my defence I didnt do anything as silly as putting the top plate on upside down, just spun 180 degress around. So the two allignment holes were nowhere hear each other. I knew something wasnt right as that side sat about 20mm higher then the other!! Its not untill I drove it and the car was pulling hard to that left, and heard the spring creaking when I turned that I realised how silly I had been. The things we do when we are rushed.
lift
I think that it does look great, and the measurement seems to have your car level all around. My car is the same level front and rear (doesn't mean that it is normal!) and it drives well. Mine is a 2 doors and I don't know if the four doors have a height difference between front and rear, may be your car is just how it should be. Measured from the ground, as you did, I have around 810mm, original suspension, 225/75/16 bfg km2. Your old front spring may just have been a bit tired? The kingspring are rated at 175lbs, compare to the original at 150lbs (and add the aging effect, so a bit less) because of that you may find that the back won't sag as much as you think (hopefully anyway!) surely not as much as before. If later on you fit bigger tyres, you will get some more lift (about 30mm with the km2).
One thing you could try is, we know that the original down travel on the front wheel is close to 80mm. This is done by measuring the car at level (middle of the rim to the guard), then jack the front wheel and measure again as soon as the wheel is not touching the ground anymore. The difference between the 2 is your down travel. The new kingspring do give around 30mm lift and about the same is lost in the wheel down travel, because the lengh of the shaft's strut is shortened by the lift. So, if you find around 50mm (original 80mm less the 30mm lift) then your front is exactly where it should be. If you find 20mm you are in trouble, as the lift would be 60mm (as measured, before and after fitting the new spring) this would mean that the new kingspring gave you too much lift, and you strut will max out while driving on pothole, not good. I think that you will find 50mm.
This test will tell you if the 60mm front lift is because of your new spring only or if it is your new spring (30mm) and removing the sagging from the old spring (the other 30mm)
Gosh, I hope that you can understand what I try to explain!
For the back, I should check in the forum, I am sure that someone as measured his (similar to your io)
Happy io...
Singlecell, me too I have some reason and it is because....I forgot...!
lift again
Good point on the possible sagging issue Claude, that would explain the bigger difference. Does a sagging spring still extend out to its full length though - Fab's uncompressed old spring is the same length as mine which I would have thought should mean it's in similar shape.
Spring
I believe that it can happen. I have seen some strut nearly loosing they spring while jack up, while some other (same model) were far from coming out. Same for resetting the spring, in some rare occasion, after a while the spring would go back to his original position (before resetting, redone under warranty).
Anyway, it is easy to check and worth doing. I have tried to find some picture to see if the front is a bit lower than the back on the 5 doors. I have to say that I have found both! but this one is a picture of a new one, and it does look to have the same gap between the guard and the tyre. Again, any uneven surface would change the level. http://redbook.com.au/cars/research/used/details?R=90056&Silo=Spec&Vertical=Car&Ridx=0&eapi=2
Anyway, the white and silver, tinted window, and that front bar looks to be a very nice looking io! even if the level might not be good!!
Happy io.
YES
A sagging spring will extend the strut out to it's full length if the weight of the vehicle is removed - and then some - the free length is somewhere in the region of 360mm.
These springs are among the longest, softest springs I have seen, and getting them compressed so that the strut can be disassembled can be quite a challenge - the first time I did it I had to reposition one of the spring compressors half way through, and the next time I do it, which will be when I change the front struts & springs, I will either borrow or buy a second set of compressors
Claude...regarding a future
Claude...regarding a future tyre upgrade...YES!!!! In fact, it's good to hear you have the 225/75/16 KM2. That's my tyre of choice. If I could sneak the 235's in there I'd be even happier but the 225's are fine.
I'm also toying with the idea of buying some after market rims (like black sunraysia style things) in a 15" and going for a taller tyre like a 85 series profile. Better for extending the footprint when airing down.
I've yet to hear if a 15" rim will clear the brakes on the front. I have a mate with a Magna that has 15" rims, so I might borrow one for a trial fit up.
So happy to hear that the KM2's are your weapon of choice too.
Going to do the drop measurement as described by you right now...... back in a tick.
Fab.
Oh Poo
I just measured my total drop as Claude suggested. Took a measurement from the centre cap of the rim at rest, then subratcted that from the same measurement when the old girl had a leg in the air. The drop.........wait for it........ 10mm!
Now I'm pretty new to this four wheel drive game, but I know that's not a good thing.
Well, looks like the stock springs will be going back in. On a positive note... I won't be needing any extra spacers to give the rear any more lift, looks like that will now be self sorting. Bugger! I was starting to get used to the way the front sat.
OK...so a summary for new players. Older car with lower spring perches, when fitted with newer struts (eg: higher spring perches) will not allow for 30mm raised King Springs.
I will repeat the measuring excercise once the stock springs are back in.
I wonder if this is atributing to my noisey spring...mmmm. I let you know that outcome too.
Fab (io) .... still love that car, although the relaitionship is being tested.
WTF( I liked that one!)
Hum, lucky you check the KMFS 900 should not be with that strut....
The one cm drop, is as you understood, not good. The strut extender, could be an option, I am not for it, but it is just a feeling and they have worked for other, but before that, it would be good to understand what is going on
Happy io...will be, I am sure...
what mystery?
I'm not sure what isn't understood here - maybe I'm missing something but it looks to me like this...
The only difference between my front lift (before fitting extenders) and Fabs is that he's got a King spring instead of the original spring that I used. He got 60mm of lift with the heavier King spring, whereas I got 25mm from using the original spring on the higher pan strut (+30mm from the Kumhos). So that means to me that the King springs hold the car up 35mm higher than the original, and therefore with Fab loses 35mm more droop than I did.
I added the extenders because I didn't like the small amount of droop I had (after just 25mm of suspension lift). It doesn't surprise me at all that with 60mm lift there is only 10mm of droop.
And by the way - the strut length is exactly the same on 334405 as the original 99 strut - I measured them when I got mine and the measurements are in the strut thread I think.
Yep...that all makes sense
I'm not sure what isn't understood here - maybe I'm missing something but it looks to me like this...
The only difference between my front lift (before fitting extenders) and Fabs is that he's got a King spring instead of the original spring that I used. He got 60mm of lift with the heavier King spring, whereas I got 25mm from using the original spring on the higher pan strut (+30mm from the Kumhos). So that means to me that the King springs hold the car up 35mm higher than the original, and therefore with Fab loses 35mm more droop than I did.
I added the extenders because I didn't like the small amount of droop I had (after just 25mm of suspension lift). It doesn't surprise me at all that with 60mm lift there is only 10mm of droop.
And by the way - the strut length is exactly the same on 334405 as the original 99 strut - I measured them when I got mine and the measurements are in the strut thread I think.
G'Day NZIO..yep..that all makes sense.
I guess I'm a little bit pi$$ed off because the King Springs were sold to fit all Pajero io from 1999 right through to 2002, when in fact, the later io's with the factory fitted higher struts won't cope with the raised King Springs.
My options now are...go back to standard springs, or fit strut extenders, or go radical and source some coil overs. I must admit...the current ride height is growing on me...well the front anyway. The back still needs an inch or so.
Fab io.
options
Yeah I think you've summarised the options. If you keep the king springs you really must fit strut extenders or somehow increase the droop - you've got seriously compromised handling with only 10mm of droop before lifting a wheel off the ground, and I don't expect the strut will last long getting slammed out to full extension all the time.
It doesn't take that long to swap springs around so I do suggest you try the original springs and see how you like them - personally I'm really happy with my setup and if I was in your shoes I'd do that and return the King Springs, or flick em on eBay if you can't.
The 50mm extenders I'm also very happy with - you have to make your own decision about whether you like the engineering/safety/compliance aspects of that mod though.
I don't thihnk I've ever said this next bit on my thread so I'll say it here - I believe 50mm is the right length for extenders, no shorter and no longer. No longer for two reasons:
1. at the extended length it is only just possible to slide the top of the shaft into the strut mount without pushing the hub down so far it pulls the driveshaft out (note this is pushing the hub down beyond where it will need to go after fitment). You could probably compress the spring to get it in but there's not much room around the spring for compressors.
2. Once fitted and at full droop the drive shaft is at about as much angle as you'd want to see in my opinion. This is equivalent to if you'd fitted 50mm spacers at the top of the struts which others here have said is the max size you should do before dropping the diff. I agree that 50mm is the max, whichever way you do it.
No shorter because (assuming you're making them from the old struts) you'd only have a very short and weak section of full width rod between the male and female thread sections.
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Just fitted some new springs, ended up getting dobinsons as they are made here with plenty of stock, noone had kings for the IO. Ride lifted 50mm which is good. Also agree that 50mm extenders are the way to go. If you want longer springs. I did some pretty rough stuff with mine locally to see if they would handle it before I went out anywhere and today when I disassembled it all they hadnt budged a bit.
Will get the proper measurements and photos tomorrow. Its a pitty 50mm doesnt look very much to the eye, haha!
I also got to look into my rear setup, although its lifted, one of the springs sags quite more then the other, might be worth just buying a proper set of new ones.
Has anyone checked if the stock shocks allow the BA springs to extended to their max?
BA springs
The BA springs are 30mm longer uncompressed than standard rears (on my 99 standard spring is 305mm, the BAs I got are 335mm), so you could go at least that much longer in the travel, obviously much more than that and you start to risk having it drop out on you but I don't know what the safety margin would be before that happens.
All good...
Nzio,I understand what you are saying but I thought that Johnicue fitted the same kingspring, to the similar strut, to his car and got around 40mm lift not 60mm.(I don't remember anything about his wheel drop, hopefully is not driving his io with only 10mm of it) Based on that, I was really concern by the 20mm difference....and thought that something was not right.
Anyway, as another option, I have a contact at Kingspring and they may agree to help you with your front spring to give your car an even 30 mm all around.
I have contacted them in the past regarding the fact that they have only one spring listed for all io, in Australia at least.
As long as you happy....it is all good!
Happy io.
OK...
...I see Claude, I hadn't really followed John's that close. Well, I think I would still fit the old springs and see what that does. Fabio - let me know if you want a measurement to compare yours to so you can figure out if your old springs sag, like hub centre to wheel arch. Of course, for all I know mine may sag a bit too, but mine has had a very easy suburban life with just two lady owners so I think they're probably OK.
Thanks guys. I think my best
Thanks guys.
I think my best option at the moment is to just refit the stock springs on my raised perch struts and see where that gets me. OK it might not give me nose bleeds at that height but at least it should maintain driveability...and amongst other things, allow me to fit larger diametre tyres.
My io had never seen the dirt before I bought it, and at 130,000kms, she has had a sheltered life....so I'm hoping the springs haven't sagged, although the one previous lady owner was carrying excess baggage.....hence the collapsed seat base foam.
I'm even now considering swapping my rear Kings for the BA option because the Kings are shorter than the stock springs which does concern me about the possibility of the springs going AWOL under full articulated conditions.
Arrggghhh....... just venting!!!!
So glad for this forum..... I would have made some bad and unsafe decissions had it not been for the advice and experience sharing on here.
Fab io.
spring
You are getting there! For your rear spring, you could check how far you can go with the wheel travel. Disconnect the lower fixation of the rear shock, jack the car up and see how far you can go before the spring go "shopping" on his own!. Once you find a safe wheel drop, check and see if your shock reach his fixation point back on. If the shock doesn't reach, you are good; if the shock goes lower then you need to do something!
I have recheck Ktm build thread as I though I have read something about the rear spring but I have found this in his "post number 8" :
Below is a reply I received when enquiring & these are the springs I have fitted.
Hope that answers your question.
Thanks for the enquiry (ktm300), we have a special design front and an off the shelf rear that picks it up 25mm. Front is known as "Pajero IO F/C" and the rear is KFFS-90. We found when specing these that they will top out with factory spec shocks if lifted any taller than this. We don't keep the front part number on the shelf so production will take 2-3 weeks from point of order. These part numbers are supplied for overseas applications quite regularly.
I only wished to have remember it before....but we know now! Hum, I still wonder about Johnicue's car...
Happy io...
Yup....agree
The rear raised king springs are the same part number in the king springs catalogue as BA Astina front springs which I fitted. You now have the exact same setup as me I believe - I'm also very happy.
Yep...agree..couldn't be happier. Drives nice, handles the bumps, no bump steer and sits just perfectly. Still needs a wheel alignment but I'll do that when the new rubber goes on. Note: this is my play car so it can just sit in the shed for a week or two while I organise some new treads.
Fab(io)
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Very cool, looks like there are a few IOs now with some lift to them.
I dont get the problem with the aftermarket springs, people here seem to be complaining about a rougher ride. I now have dobinsons in front and back, and yes the ride is a bit more stiff but its far from being bad enough to complain about. Although it worth keeping in mind, I pretty much only drive mine to and from, and at 4x4 tracks, so I am expecting it to be rough...
I got a couple of good vid on the weekend, hopefully Ill get time to post them today.
Ok...it doesn't suck anymore!
Well done... Agree with you regarding the kingspring, being stronger, more compact, you would loose some articulation. You have your car nicely leveled and with the kingspring at the back you can put a bit more weight as you needed. Mine will get done in a few month, but I think that I will be resetting the original spring and use some kony insert with a spacer inside the strut and try to increase, compensate, the wheel drop ( as you it will be some testing!)
I am glad you made it, and made it well:)
As always, Happy io...
Syndicate
noisy spring
No worries!, I had a smile while reading Singlecell with mounting the plate upside down. So to make him feel better, I have to tell you a nice silly one that I have done. When I received the K-mac adjustable bearing plates, they gave me the wrong nuts to bolt on the strut (the old one fitted but wasn't the best fitting). I had to pick up my wife at the airport in Sydney. K-mac is close to the airport, so I took off one nut and took it to K-mac to have the right one for the plates. We came back very late. In the morning I took the io to go to work, down the driveway, some noise, some more noise...I forgot to put the nut back on....I have managed to line up the plate, and the bearing and the strut shaft and got the nuts back on, but that was a bit stressful and I got 20mm late at work...I hope that Singlecell is feeling better now:), and yes you can smile...
If the bearing is gone, the steering should be very heavy. By jacking the car in the middle, and turning the wheel by hand, engine off, you should feel it, you might even not be able to turn it. You might see the problem. Sometime the spring could be just not seated properly between the lower and the higher plate, even by a few millimeters (very hard to see) and make some noise. Or the rubber, between the spring and the plates, could have moved. One mechanic were I worked, used to put some rubber grease on the end of the spring, then the spring would go "by himself" to his correct position and not making noise. Anyway, could be something else and there isn't that many parts in the struts so I hope that it will be easy fix, even if it is annoying!
Happy io
My io is now SOLD Thankshttp://pajerio.com/forum/claudes-io-2002-zr-built-thread-onlyhappy-io