Change lowrange gearing from 1.548 to 1.925 with Delica parts?
That is correct. To get the
That is correct.
To get the tcase off though and before u unbolt it u have to take the pin that is on the shaft above the gears off... as u can see on the diagram above... it's the one below the gear lever and is the one that changes the gears in the gearbox. First u take that off so that the tcase can be removed. When assembled u folow exactly the reverse order...
If in good condition u don;t have to change anything else...
2.7 low range gears
Look what else I found today. 2.7 low range gears. Im guessing they will be quite affordable coming out of korea too...
Looks like they cut the small gear really small, meaning the large side will be significantly smaller than the marks 2.85 gears, maybe if will fit with no grinding? or a lot less anyway.
Just need to find where to get them! Know anyone that speaks and reads Korean?
The small gear of the idler
The small gear of the idler has nothing to do with the large side, it doesn;t affect one another. The pairs that match in size is the input with the large side and the output with the small side. The number of teeth looks small on the large side, maybe it fits the original input gear and the only sell the 2 other gears? you have to check that out if possible
I was going to edit my post
I was going to edit my post earlyer, Yep, I made a mistake, If anything the gear in the way of the selector fork will be even bigger requiring even more gringing.
I think it comes with only 2 gears and uses the original input gear. Helps make it cheaper i guess... One product for manual and auto versions too.
If anyone is keen I think we could do an iO GP, I need to get move info still, I am waiting for a reply on the diameter of the gears.
When u have the tooth number
When u have the tooth number and sizes i could tell you more about installation if possible. If it is larger than the marks set it might be very difficult to install with reliabiity...
If it comes with only 2 gears thean you will also have to find the galloper's input gear that match the set, the IO's will not do. If it has 2 different versions for auto/manual it means that it might include the input gear since this is the part that changes from auto to manual. But better wait for their response with more info
Looks like its 15 / 30,
Looks like its 15 / 30, larger than the 15 / 28 on the marks 2.85 gears, so it will be a problem for the selecter fork! but may still be OK? It will atleast have the advantage of not needing to weldup and machine the transfer housing...
I thought the 1.925 did fit into the pajero without changing the input gear? galloper gears were the same as the pajero? 1,925 or 1.944? I have a 1.944 set so can use the input from that if i need, otherwise the iO input gear should work? But if it is for the 1.944 a new input gear will also be needed by anyine wanting this. Fortunatly they are cheap also?
Wait, i think u were
Wait, i think u were confused,
The original pinin idler gear is 15/19 the 1,925 is15/21 (which marginally fits) and the marks 2,85 is 15/26 and requires welding and cutting the tcase. Looks like 30 or is it 30? if it is that large it might be problem for IO tcase beacuse in the pajero/galloper tcase there is plenty of room for that gear-not in the IO though
From the photo the output gear has 30 teeth when the original IO and 1,925 have 22 and the marks 2,85 has 28, again it might be too large to fit.
The idler has nothing to do with the selector fork, the output gear is the one that requires the fork to be cut.
The 1,925 fits the pajero without changing the OUTPUT gear (NOt the INPUT gear), which is the same as in the IO.
So from the photo it seems it's a 2 gear set?
I think it will all become clear when u get the exact dimensions and tooth number of the gears, no use speculating when we can know for sure from the manufacturer and then see what is compatible with what :)
Sorry, Im back on track now!
Sorry, Im back on track now! :)
Im sure we are in agreement 
To end confusion i will refer to the gears the same way as we do in the RC heli community, In systematic order from the motor, A = INput gear, B = Idler gears, and C = OUTput gears.
when i said 15 / 30 i wasn't talking about the idler (B) gear, I was talking about the ratio from the 15 tooth, small end, of the idler (B) gear to the output (C) gear. the iO, Pajero 1.925, Marks 2.85 and the 2.7 all have 15 tooth on the small side of the B gears. (Edit the mistake POR pointed out: The 1.944 has 19 on the small side of the idler.)
So as i was saying, as as you also agree, this will make the C gear (output) even larger than the marks gear meaning the selector fork would need to have even more grinding. May be to much?!? Tomorrow I will calculate the diameter of the 30t C gear, if 28t = 95mm with a 15 / 28 I can calculate what the 15 / 30 diameters will be since the centers are the same.
The big end of the idler (B) gear on the 2.7 looks like its the same as the pajero with 21-22 teeth, But thats just from an inaccurate extrapolated count of the picture, but as a 2 piece kit that would make sense! and with and idler (B) to output (C) ratio of 2:1 that would = 2.625 with a 21 tooth B gear big end.
Is the 1.944 idler big end also 21?, 22 would make sense as that would = 2.75.
It would be nice if someone made the combination of Marks 26 / 16 A/B gearing to the 5/30 B/C gearing for 3.25 low range! I wander why marks gears didnt do that since it will fit pajeros?
But I am not holding my breath, the koreans im emailing seem to have no idea about the details of these gears, so clearly they ar enot the manufacturer, Ill have to dig deeper, Give up or see if marks will make a 2 peice kit or just the B (idler) and C(output) gears, Be cheaper and easy for them im sure...
For the record, i am
For the record, i am providing the teeth count for each set:
(input, idler, output)
1,548: 18,19/15,22
1,925: 16,21/15,22
1,944: 19,26/19,27
2,854: 17,26/15,28
For the 2,7 set i would guess
2,750: 16,22/15,30 which means that they keep the original input 16, the make one more tooth on the large side of the idler and 8 more on the output.
As you can see the 1,944 has 19 teeth on the small idler gear and not 15, just different configuration.
Extrapolating the diameter from the tooth number and diameter of other gear is not accurate since you can have the same number of teeth with different diameter and the same diameter with same number of teeth, just more compressed construction between the teeth! for example the output gear of 27 teeth is smaller in diameter than the one with 22 !!!
Marks used to make 3,15 gears for that pajero model (gen 1), but replaced it years ago with 2,85 because of the extended work that had to be done in order to fit the tcase and they thought it required modifications from expert engineer so they preffered to make a 2,85 set that would be easier to fit straight away... They only offer a 3,15 set for the Gen 3 pajero which obviously has the space in the tcase to fit them. For the Gen 2 pajeros they offer a 2,7 set.
Thanks for clearing that up,
Thanks for clearing that up, I forgot to mention I had not actually counted my 1.944 and made the foolish assumption it was also 15.
Yes you can have different diameters and teeth counts for same and different ratios, but only when the "operating center distance" (distance between axles) is variable. In our transfer case it is not, the distance between the axles is fixed, so the ratio is the only thing of importance regardless of tooth count. 15 / 30 wll be the same diameters as 30 / 60. So extrapolating the diameter with tooth count is actually extremely accurate for finding the radius to the pitch point (point of contact) and the Arc of action.
The maximum addendum circle ( overall diameter ) may very depending on the size of teeth used, but as its a 15 / 30 ratio over the 15 / 28 of the marks gears we know the teeth will be smaller, so that works in our favor.
Its easy if you think of the gears as circles / wheels, with no teeth, If the distance between centers remains the same there is an exact radius to ratio formula. the tooth count then can very in the same way the unit of measure could very with a circle, mm / cm / Inch etc, a different number for a different size unit of measure, just as with a different size of tooth will give a different number of teeth, but the pitch point / point of contact / arc of action / will remain the same.
But IF the centers were not fixed then you would be right, there would be no way to calculate the diameter based of ratio / tooth count..
There is a lot more to it, but for the sake of getting a close guesstimate this is enough
Claude io wrote: Claude io
Does anyone now if the transfer box is the same on manual and automatic gear box ?...I would say that it is but I am not sure, any differences ? or if the 1.8 is the same as the 2 litres?. I am looking to get a second hand one to play with....
Happy io
I have just learned the hard and expensive way that the auto transfer case is NOT the same as the manual transfer case. F#$% and double F#$% what a waste of time and money....
NOT happy io....
OUCH!
more info, pics of what the problem is?
low range part no's
http://www.4x4extremesports.com/index.php?http://www.4x4extremesports.co...
This lists the mitsu part no's for the gears
you want the 3.0L input and low range gears for the 1:1.925 ratio setup.
if your io is manual - you grab the manual gearbox ones, of an auto the auto ones.
DIY here: http://pajerio.com/forum/diy-how-install-11925-low-range-gears
NOTE: if you use the 1:1.925 option from gen 2 3.0L vehicles you ONLY need to change the input gear (one that sticks out the front of the transfer box with the bearing on it) and counter shaft gear (the double ended gear that has a gear on each end)
do you need
That is correct.
To get the tcase off though and before u unbolt it u have to take the pin that is on the shaft above the gears off... as u can see on the diagram above... it's the one below the gear lever and is the one that changes the gears in the gearbox. First u take that off so that the tcase can be removed. When assembled u folow exactly the reverse order...
If in good condition u don;t have to change anything else...
the manual says the spring pin needs to be replaced with a new item each time it is removed - have you needed to do this or can it be reused?
cannot get front cover off transfer case
Hi Guys,
gearbox seperated from transfer very easily - looks new inside, I unbolted the front cover of the transfer box as it appears that it will come straight off but it only moves 2mm forward before stopping!?
Is there anything I should be removing first? transfer shifters? detent switches? circlips?
It looks like in the manual that the input gear is held into the front cover with a circlip, and that the back section of the gear cluster will remain attached to the main box when the front cover is removed. It also looks like everything else simply sits against the front cover - nothing is solidly mounted into it and no reason why it shouldn't come off.
transfer case
From memory, and if I understand you try to remove the transfer case plate (part 47, page 103 of 22D) to access the counter gear. Try to move the Hi-Lo shift rail (mainly to move the fork), and/or rotate a little the output shaft. The counter gear shaft could be a bit tight as well. As I completely dismantle mine (auto !) I remember that I had to remove the transfer control housing, but I don't think that you need to do that to remove the transfer case plate....not sure.
You might just need to use a bit more....gentle persuasion....
I will check tomorrow if there is a snap ring or not, I just don't remember, and it is at work....back to you around 9.30am tomorrow.
Can't wait to read your work later on....
Happy io
clips
Regarding the clips....only one clip is visible on the shaft but doesn't need to be remove, it is just holding the gear on the cover....
This said, the cover doesn't slide out easily just by hand, (I just done it to bring back some memory !) some gentle persuasion is needed.
Happy io
Low ratio gears installed!
Got it done, is an easy-moderate job once you know what you're doing. Will write up a DIY guide with pics and steps.
I can confirm that the later model 1:1.92 gears fit and only the lay cluster and input gear need changing. All can be done via the front cover with some jiggling and patience to get around the selector fork.
1:1.92 are out of V5MT1 Box - pref Gen 2
preferaly a Gen 2 - think the Gen 1's had the 1:1.94 which is a much harder conversion - see here:
http://pajerio.com/forum/diy-how-install-11925-low-range-gears
It's the V5MT1 box that you are chasing - I have NO IDEA which box for the auto's but would asume if you grabbed a 3.0V6 auto transfer box from an NH or NJ you'd likely have a winner
Gen 1
NF model Sept 88-Sept 89
3.0 V6 5sp (V5MT1)
NG model Sept 89-Apr 91
3.0 V6 5sp (V5MT1)
Gen 2
NH model Apr 91-Nov 93
swb 3.0 V6 5sp (V5MT1) rear coils
lwb 2.5 TDI 5sp (V5MT1) 3.0 V6 5sp (V5MT1)
NJ model Nov 93-Mar 97
swb 3.0 V6 5sp (V5MT1)
lwb 3.0 V6 5sp (V5MT1)
Hey everyone, I am looking
Hey everyone,
I am looking for one of these transfer cases. Is anyone able to help track one down.
I have been quoted $375 from River Murray Auto Wrecker in SA. Unfortunantly I think that is over priced and I would have to pay postage on top of that.
Has anyone got any ideas?
Cheers
GOR
jump onto the pajero club of vic forum
Jump onto the paj club of vic and drop a post in the Gen 2 area - you'll see my post from a while back.
Mis3ry was the guy who provided me with my set of gears.
what you want is a transfer box that is already blown that you can get parts from - not an entire transfer box UNLESS you want to be a prick and put your 1.15 io low range back into the gen2 paj box and sell it on,.. karma will get you on that one. you'll find someone who has a blown box who will be happy to pass on some gears - or a u-pull-it that has a paj box in it you can pilfer from.
i've had two problems since my low range mod -
1) the scoring on the oilseal surface has lead to my gearbox leaking out the telltail - will need to sleeve the input gear to fix it
2) had to dump my transfer oil and run a heavier oil to clear out the ALU shavings - see oil comparison below after 1000kms of driving.
new oil left - old oil right
.
new gears damage to oil seal
yes and no - see picture below:
you would be well worth spending some time with a scotchbrite pad and turps and cleaning the brown varnish off where the seals ride, grease up your old seals when re-inserting the gears.
Mine were damaged when i got them, clear gouging on the face and my seals are old and hard so no supprises the gearbox one weeps - transfer box seal is still fine.
ALSO check the bearing condition - if it need repair you'd best press a new one on now ranther than later as this bearing supports the back of the gearbox shaft!!
transfer gear
Hi Claude,
nope - speedy-sleeve will fix it - will need two new (soft & supple) standard oil seals
alu is likely from the low range cluster moving under heavy load and contacting the case wall - would not need much movement to cause the alu powder.
I'm not worried - if it doesn't go away with a few fills then I'll likely just stick my old gears back in and put it down to an experience
good idea
Good idea too, probably cheaper as well.....I haven't heard of a speedy sleeve for a long time....
what do you mean by "alu is likely from the low range cluster moving under heavy load and contacting the case wall " is it maybe because of the smaller gap between the new gear and the casing ?
Happy io
zero gap
what do you mean by "alu is likely from the low range cluster moving under heavy load and contacting the case wall " is it maybe because of the smaller gap between the new gear and the casing ?
it's not that the gap is smaler, it's that there is NO gap- the clearance is basically skim contact in two places with the edge of the gear only - about 1mm clearance the rest of the way around. I expected that the gear housing would flex and the gear WOULD carve a minor amount of material out of the case until it created it's own clearance.
I dropped the 85-140 tonight and replaced with nulon 80 + half a tube of G70 teflon - no alu in the 140w that I dumped at all, all crystal clear.
I cannot recomend G70 teflon in gearboxes, aside from making them easier to shift the treatment foams and reduces heaps of incidental noise in your gearbox.
G70
Cannot recommend it?
My gearbox is getting a little sticky / notchy, and I've been wondering about oil additives in my next service.
4wd action mag bangs on about liqui-moly and all their different oils and additives, and then there's the old Lucas oil stabiliser which I've never actually used.
Has anyone had any success with any of these in the gearbox? And should they be used in the transfer case as well?
additives
liquid moly is only really good for submerged seals - I wouldn't use it in the transfer boxes but if you had front hub seals (not driveshafts) i'd consider it.
I've used G70 for years and years and years. Lovely stuff and given we should be running 80 to 90 weight oil in the transfer (which is quite light) and the layshaft bearings need a light oil for the offset gears to pump through I'd be using additives with extra EP rating - G70 fits the bill. personnaly I'd prefer to run an 85w140 titan XEP oil or a diff oil but it would be too heavy for the fine needle rollers (as pointed out by claude).
lucas oil stabiliser - i've only ever turned the crank in the repco counter and watched it sticking to the gears - no idea
given you can walk into super cheap and buy four litres of Nulon GL-4 80 oil for $26 on sale i'd stock up and use that. 4L will do both gearbox and transfer as you only can dump about 1.7L out of the transfer due to the chain case drain port design and the gearbox is 2.3L from memory - spot on 4L
And the "flip" side
Nulon G70 with PTFE aka Teflon, which, according to it's inventor, Dupont, is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives
<snip> given we should be running 80 to 90 weight oil in the transfer (which is quite light) and the layshaft bearings need a light oil for the offset gears to pump through I'd be using additives with extra EP rating </snip>
You've just described a 75w90 GL5 oil, and without any controversy as to the effectiveness of the additive package.
oil additive
I won't walk into that one....too many different opinion, and probably all valid !
The way I go with a "unhappy" gearbox is, change the oil, if it doesn't work try a different grade, if it doesn't work...try additive. Some will work fantastic, some not, and it can depend a lot of what is happening inside the gearbox. Most of the time it will be wear and tear, but wear and tear can be different and result will be different....Give it a try, Bob seems happy with his, that could be a start .....
Happy io
Oil Leak Fixed!!!
The lower gear inout shaft was scorred on the gearbox oilseal location and was leaking oil almost immediatly after instalation. I ordered two replacement seals (same part no for transfer box side and gearbox side) and a speedysleeve for a 45mm shaft.
Sseals went in easily, there is a thin metal splash guard behind that were dented as I punched out the old seals but tapped flat easily. Some liquid metal epoxy went into the worn groove on the shaft and the speedy sleeve was tapped on, it was a bugger to clean up and trim down but careful and patient tinsnipping and hacksawing with some gentle filing got a good result.
reassembly and box back in and (touch wood) so far no leaks!! WIN! I decided to run 80W/90 gear oil and although the shifting in the gearbox when cold is notchy the noise is way down and much nicer.
tip - if you are doing this conversion and the new shaft is scorred - speedysleve it FIRST and either way i would bank on replacing the seals as they are super-cheap and worth it while you have the box appart!
Hi Guy's, it's been a
Hi Guy's, it's been a while
Hi Guy's, it's been a while but I thought i would add some more info on here about doing the 1.925 low ratio in our iO's.
I have just recently done it about 1 week ago and is way better than the 1.54. Even tho I have only done a quick test offroad so far everything seems fine and no problems but I did rectify the problem with the seal from the gearbox sitting on the input gear a little bit different to Bob-oz.
Bob ended up doing a speedy sleeve and I did look into this option and the price was a bit too much for me ($60) and was told to only use this option as a last resort as the speedy sleeve not done properly will end up stuffing up and will need to pull the box out again to rectify the problem so I looked around for other options and ended up putting a 2mm spacer behind the backing plate and seal to push the seal further down the shaft of the input gear and it has worked out good so far.
It cost me $2 for the spacer which ended up being a c-clip like what holds the input gear in the housing, it was 70mm wide so had to sqeeze it in a bit and it held in well but I used silicon to hold it better and let it set overnight. then put the very thin backing plate back in and then the new seal and also silicon on that to give it a better hold as it was sitting 2mm further out of it's casing and didn't want it popping out at a later date. I did have 2mm to play with as there was a 2mm gap between the 2 seals facing each other (1 from the transfer and the other from the gearbox) and now they are butting up against each other which is fine and won't do any damage or cause problems later.
I took a couple of pics that I will put up on here.
It was a bit tricky putting it back together but wasn't hard just took some concentration and a couple of practice runs before applying the silicon to the face of it. But all in all I did take my time with it (2 weeks) I would not have been able to do it without everyones input and info on how to do it from on here so thank you to all the people that had input and the information that has been put up on here.
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Syndicate
Help?
Hi Guys,
this looks simple-as but just to clarify: (i'm going for the 1:925 convo - not the 1:944)
1) from what I can tell, we want the gears from the V5MT1 box but the paj box is the V5M21 - I assume some compatiability.
2) for the 1:925 conversion we need the low range idler gear (gear with two gears on it) and the transfer input gear held into the case with a circlip at the front of the box
see pic:
1:925 requires the red gear and the green gear
1:944 requires the red gear and the green gear and the blue gear
3) to get access to these gears you need to unbolt the transferbox (purple line) from the gear box and slide it backwards, far enough for the output shaft of the gearbox to exit the front of the transfer box
do you need to re-use any of the bearings / synchro rings / seals etc?
Thanks in advance
.