Front & rear Locker diffs for the iO! whos interested ?
http://blogs.fourwheeler.com/6680013/editorials/its-new-its-tough-you-go...
I have done some research and everyone that has used them is very happy with them.
It looks like a very good (patented) invention to me! Its almost full time open diff but full time locker at the same time! I dont know why someone didnt think of it sooner.
I have ordered a Front auto locker to test in my iO.
Pajero iO locker diff
Yeah i heard there was nothing for the front, I was stoked to find this company!
They are from Brazil, I think the price is great as is! Much better than ARB or TJM lockers!? The RRP there is $740 USD for the front and $800 USD for the rear. but freight is $150USD each or $250ish i think for the pair. I am thinking about organizing a group purchase to try and get the prices down?
Hey guys, be careful - I've
Hey guys,
be careful - I've driven a lada with a qaif front auto locker that is the same principal but using worm gears. fine in the dry and on a firm surface however on dirt roads it would tend to tramline when you power on through corners, i'd me more inclined to find an air-actuated or cable actuated type instead of an autolocker for the front. For the rear it won't affect the steering anywhere as badly so definitly go with that option if you don't want to do an ARB. last thing you want is to come around a slipery corner, tromp it and find yourself heading into the bank in a straight locked-up-line!
I've got the ARB fitted in the rear and it's great in that it doesn't do any thing unexpected, it's either on or off and so far i've yet to find anything that i cannot get up! Though in saying that I am looking to grab a cheap front diff from a wrecker and take it to ARB to size up for an air locker - i'd expect it would match another mitsu front diff - The io isn't as different as you'd think form the rest of the line up being comprised of delica,paj and triton parts :)
Considering the rear diff in an io is a match for the rear out of the old 2.5/2.8L shorty pajero's you could probably get a TJM to suit that!
Bob
actually - have a look at the
actually - have a look at the video - around corners you only have a minor amount of movement before it locks up, or scrubs your tyres! at least with the worm-gear type the two halves can auto-rotate and the friction and gearing on the worms causes an increased resistance the more the difference is. i.e. small differential movement is ok, larger i.e. tight corners is ok but loads up, lots of diferential movement is almost stopped due to exponential increase in friction.
Hmmm - looks like a detroit :S
Kasier Lockers
Hey Bob, Thats what i was thinking at first too, But they can actually turn infinitely in a corner, not just a small amount before it locks up again.. (diagram from there website below)
Some kind of bearing ratcheting, They say there is a slight noise from the pins as its in overrun.
I have spoken to a heap of Brazilians running them and they all love them, a few have swapped from ARB even.
The yanks are also loving them now there been imported into the USA, If they work as well as everyone that's using them sais, id much prefer these to an Airlocker,
Im still not 100% sure how it manages to work so well, or how it locks up again after a corner etc. But ill have a good test of mine when it arrives.
The good thing about having it in the front in the iO is im in RWD most of the time, only when its in 4WD do I have a front locker.
Kaiser is new to the US, but the product has been around for over 5 years in Brazil and it has been tested in drag, rally and 4wd vehicles. The original design was tested by Mr. Kaiser (owner of Nekarth who is the parent company and whose name was used for the product) about 20 years ago, then the project was left sitting until Mr. Kaiser's grandson took over the company some years ago.
In a Suzuki Sidekick which was previously fitted with a Powertrax in the rear. Kaiser works a lot better in a light vehicle like the Suzuki, it doesn't produce any harsh noises and it's transparent in the street
.
Diff swap options
Though in saying that I am looking to grab a cheap front diff from a wrecker and take it to ARB to size up for an air locker - i'd expect it would match another mitsu front diff - The io isn't as different as you'd think form the rest of the line up being comprised of delica,paj and triton parts :)
Considering the rear diff in an io is a match for the rear out of the old 2.5/2.8L shorty pajero's you could probably get a TJM to suit that!
Bob
Awesome! I have been wanting to know if the rear was the same as anything else! Does that mean we could use the ratios form them also? Do you know what ratios they come in?
Only healps if we can find a something to fit the front in the same ratio tho i guess. Let us know what you find out regarding the front!!!
It would be the best if the same 2.5/2.8 fronts were the same also
I have been planing to swap the 5.11 from the 1.8 auto, but if theres something easyer to find that owuld be good.
Mits is great that way, all the swap-able parts, Most of the time anyway. sometimes they screw with you tho 
ARB vs Kaiser
I have done a little more googling and can only find praises on these diffs.
As pointed out below they dont have the negative effects of a detroit etc. And another reason I like these over an on/off locker like ARB is that it allows freewheeling of one wheel, resulting in more traction than a solid locked diff on uneven terrain and both wheel are turning at a different speed. Like when one wheel is going over a big rock and the other is dropping into a rut and needs to turn faster, the wheels will not fight each other.
I found the review below here www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25328
The thread goes on to explain how they work
"Hi Guys,
This is going to have to be a pretty long post to get the information out that I want to share so I apologize up front, grab a beverage and bear with me so I can present my ‘findings’…..
I was asked to run and test a new type of Differential Locker that is being introduced to the US Market from Brazil. The locker is being marketed here under the ‘Kaiser’ brand and is being sold by a company called 'The Expeditioneers' (www.expeditioneers.com) based in Phoenix (its not on their website yet but their contact details are). Current price uninstalled is about the same as an ARB at $900.
First off let me point out that I don't work for or have any official affiliation with either of these companies and I make no gains from any sales of these lockers. I was asked to test it and give my feedback and having done so I think it is good enough that some of you may be interested in it so I am sharing it with the forum.
The Brazilian manufacturer has been in business for 48 yrs and specializes in manufacturing OEM parts for the Agricultural and Heavy Equipment markets as well as the general auto markets. They released this locker design in their local markets about 5 years ago and it is now the local market leader. It is being used in 4x4s, Race Cars, Rally Cars, Drag Racers, Commercial Vans, Light trucks and so on. So it gets tested in a pretty wide range of applications. They have waited to introduce it to the US so as to make sure that any design, manufacturing, reliability and premature wear kinks could be worked out.
They are so confident in it that they offer a 1 year manufacturers warranty against defects that does not restrict ANY modifications to the vehicle it is fitted to. If you have 35s or 37s, crawler gears, chipped ECU, suspension lift or other mods, they don’t care. Check the fine print on some of the other locker manufacturer’s supposedly better and or longer warranties and you’ll find clauses like ‘not warranted off-road’, not warranted if vehicle has been modified’ and so on.
Ok, that's the background, so what is it?
It is a 100% locked unit that allows for the differences in wheel speed such as when cornering or when traveling over rough terrain. It offers very similar functionality to something like the Detroit Locker but without some of the drawbacks and the benefit that it can be used in both the front or rear axels. Internally it works very differently to anything else that we have out there on the market at the moment. The version for us fits the standard Rover 24 Spline Diff like those fitted to all US D1s, D2s, D90s and later RRCs. It replaces the Rover Gear Carrier but re-uses the existing Ring Gear and Bearings. It’s a direct bolt in replacement that takes less than 2hrs to fit and set up if the 3rd Member is out of the vehicle. It requires no add ons like compressors, air lines, solenoids, switches, etc. and it needs no special fluids or maintenance.
So as to try and keep this mail to something slightly below the word count of War and Peace I won't go into the explanation of how it works here. If anybody wants me to break it down and explain it, just post up and I will do so.
I installed one of the units into the rear Axle of my D90 just before the Overland Expo. Prior to that I had a chance to look at the design and during the Expo the chance to talk at length with the 2 guys form Kaiser who came over from Brazil to demonstrate it. At first I was skeptical. After all we have had lockers for years and the 3 primary types are all very similar with similar features or drawbacks. How could this be any better? But it actually is.
Its single biggest benefit to us in the Rover community I think is the fact that it is easy on the driveline. Unlike a Detroit or other permanent locker it takes almost no force to allow a wheel to turn faster and allow for differences in travel distance such as in a turn or on uneven ground and it does so without compromising the drive lock. Unlike an ARB or other selectable locker it does not rigidly lock the wheels together at the same speed and force them to fight each other for traction in a turn or rough terrain. Unlike a TruTrac or other LSD it is 100% locked to drive direction and does not require a difference in wheel speed to lock up.
What it does is simple. It locks both wheels to the direction and speed of drive but allows either wheel (but only 1 at a time) to be turned faster than the drive input so as to allow for a different distance of wheel travel. Neither wheel can travel slower than the Ring Gear but either wheel can travel faster (but not both together).
The force needed to allow a wheel to turn faster is very minimal. As an experiment after I had fitted it, I tried some different combinations of wheel lift with a jack to see what happened:
1 Wheel up/In Gear = Wheel turns (Overrun).
1 Wheel up/Neutral = Wheel Turns (Overrun).
2 Wheels Up/In Gear = 1 Wheel will turn, but not both.
2 Wheels up/Neutral = 1 Wheel will turn but the trans doesn't or both wheels will turn and the trans does.
What this means is the locker requires less force to allow it to overrun than the trans needs to get it to turn in neutral. With the prop shaft off, both wheels turn in the same direction (Locked). With an open diff, they turn in opposite directions.
OK so that's the theory, does it work?
The quick answer is yes, very well. I have driven a few hundred miles with it now, primarily on but also some off road. On road you have no idea it is there. It does not chirp the tires, bind, suddenly unload like a shotgun or make any other indication that you have it fitted. The vehicle driving characteristics on a dry road (no rain since I had it fitted and I live in central AZ so no mud or snow, sorry) are exactly the same as with an open standard diff. There is no additional noise (you can't hear it at all), whine or vibration. There is no resistance to steering input or tire scrub. Since I currently have an open front and a Kaiser in the rear, after I got back from the Expo a week or so ago I checked the temperature of the two diff housings after 130 miles or so of Interstate driving and there was no appreciable difference in housing temperatures front to rear. So it's not adding any friction or heat. It's not adding anything to my gas mileage that I can detect.
Off Road? Well again, most of the time you don't know you have it. It doesn't announce itself until you get into a situation of limited traction to one of the wheels on the installed Axle. On a rutted washed out hill climb for example when you get cross axled and lift a wheel, the lifted wheel continues to turn at the same speed as the driven one. So it's working just as a locker should and allowing the wheel on the ground to turn even when the other one has limited or no contact/traction. In a descent you still have engine breaking as you normally would. In loose sandy conditions, it again operates as though it wasn't there and does not scrub the tires and cause you to slip or slide sideways. On a rocky track where the wheels are alternately lifting over rocks or dropping into holes its again silent and unnoticeable.
So what are the benefits to me? Well consider how other lockers work. Most other 100% permanent lockers on the market require some form of force input to overcome a mechanical lock. They use springs, clutch packs or other set ups to lock the wheels together. In order to unlock and allow one wheel to travel further than the other they have to have sufficient force applied to overcome the lock. This force is directed back into the driveline until it unlocks. This puts strain on the axle shafts, hubs, R&P, UJs, etc. It also increases tire wear and uses more gas. Some of them can unlock very suddenly and sharply and again this force change is transmitted back into the driveline and tires. Most selectable lockers are considered to be better because you can turn them off when you don't need them. Ignoring the extra parts you need like compressors or electrical solenoids, etc. They also transmit force into the driveline while in use. Because the axles are locked together, any turn or difference in contour of the ground that causes the wheels to travel different distances will have one wheel fighting the other for traction and transmitting that force back into the driveline and tires again. An LSD requires the wheels to spin at different speed in order to lock up or start to lock up. If that spinning wheel suddenly finds traction or touches down before the diff locks then it is suddenly slowed down and that force is again transmitted back.
Typically most people in the Rover community when they consider installing lockers, also consider upgrading the axle shafts, CVs, hubs, etc. They do so because they know that the locker is going to put additional strain on these and other component s and they need to be beefed up as part of the task of gaining the benefit of locking up the axels. I was looking at probably $5k or more to beef up my driveline as part of fitting lockers to my truck so it was well down my list of things to do. With the Kaiser I am not so concerned about the rest of the driveline. Don't get me wrong, it's still going to put some degree of additional stress in there, but my research and my findings with it so far indicate that it is significantly less than the alternatives out there and I am fairly confident I can probably wait to spend the cash and update my driveline until I fit my 50" tires...
Conclusion. I really like it (did you guess?). I think that if you are considering installing lockers you should take a good look at this one when you are considering your options. Its more expensive than a Detroit or a TruTrac to buy but isn't going to detonate your driveline in 5 mins if you don't upgrade that at the same time. Installed it's cheaper than an ARB or other selectable lockers because you don't need to install the additional activation systems and components. It's also more reliable out on the trail because there are no external wiring or air systems prone to failure.
I will be fitting another one to my front axle in the next couple of weeks or so and I will report back once I have had it in and had a chance to try it out with my findings. But I don't expect any surprises.
Thanks and again sorry for the 'essay'.
Ian"
It was the SWB ones, though
It was the SWB ones, though unsure of year model,
i'll check my difflock box when I gety home but i'm pretty sure it was a r10a ARB diff lock, will confirm tonight.
Note, carrier was different size to the io but the crownwheel bolt pattern to the carrier and offset from the pinion was the same so the replacement carrier just fits inside the housing so it was ok to swap.
A few posts up Bob said "the
A few posts up Bob said "the rear diff in an io is a match for the rear out of the old 2.5/2.8L shorty pajero's" The center, not the crown and pinion. (maybe)
$650 front and $750 rear should be achievable If i get a few Kasiers in.
The more i read and think about these the better I think they will be. I cant think or any situation than an air locker would give more traction, but i can think of situations where the kasier will give more traction.
Will wait until I have installed my front one first.
oops, didnt press save until
oops, didnt press save until this morning, Interesting that the post went up above yours bob, Seems to put them in order of post starting rather than post submission?
PS big thanks! got a little surprise in the mail yesterday. Will upload that when i get back from cramping.
glad the package arrived -
glad the package arrived - it's a real mess of a PDF, all nested and linked but has more data than you can imagine.
It is unfortunatly only really good for looking up about somthing you already have so you can identify it, no good for looking up about items that "might" have been released on later models as the aussie model is a mix of the pinin01-02 bodies
ARB model number RD05
It was the SWB ones, though unsure of year model,
i'll check my difflock box when I gety home but i'm pretty sure it was a r10a ARB diff lock, will confirm tonight.
Note, carrier was different size to the io but the crownwheel bolt pattern to the carrier and offset from the pinion was the same so the replacement carrier just fits inside the housing so it was ok to swap.
The model installed in my io is "RD05" "Mitsubishi Pajero, RR (small)" part no 210205 (this may be the part number of the instructions)
I have the full instalation guide and I would not attempt this at home, simple concept but fairly complex process to ensure it works well.
arb diff lock
Hello again,
I am still reading your forum! and having a great time. Are you happy with this locker? I don't think that I am going to need the front one, I got stack a few time but a rear locker would have been a easy way out, so a rear locker and later a front winch should be plenty. I have contacted the local ARB last year but they told me "no locker for this car" . So I will go and see them with your model number...I hope that it will work...
Thanks again,
Claud io
Please write me on
Please write me on erofeevdenis@mail.ru your full instalation guide
Hi guy's. New here but
Hi guy's. New here but barging in anyway.
Where are you all at, regarding these lockers? Have I missed the buy? Or not welcome?(thats cool).
I have looked at every option (exept this one) from all the manufacturers, for a front locker.
4WD systems had me strung out for almost a year on the promise of manufacturing a 'lokka' to suit the 7.25". I have been informed this wont be happening.
I would be keen for the front definitely, the rear is marginal but a maybe.
Plese let me know.
As I stated above, I am very
As I stated above, I am very interested. Have sent 'Kaiser' an email with no response. Will wait a little longer before talking to transmission type people & arranging supply & fitment.
Glen, have you received/fitted your front yet? Details?
Cheers.
I have spoken with them
I have spoken with them via email quite a few times, If your keen ill order ASAP? Who else is keen on some? Fron and or rear? Im going to get both. Im keen, got stuck a couple of times on Saturday when out wheelin, those Kaiser "lockers" would have had me up the hills no probs :) (still did better than my mates JK jeep :) add your name to a post with updated numbers if you want one.
Edit: I had the prices wrong plus forgot to add the GST they will slug us with when they arrive!
Their retail prce is, Front $740 Rear $800. Deliverd this works out, in USD, to
Front = $946
Rear = $1010 ($1956 a Pair)
But for the sake of this Group Purchase, we get these prices
1-12(upto 6 pair) = $1856 a Pair..... $1765 AU$
12(6 pair)+ = $1706 a pair ............$1622 AU$
24(12 pair)+ = $1641 a pair.............$1560 AU$
Copy this list and add your info if you want in. Glen......... 1 Front -1 Rear KTM300....?Front - ?Rear
Group buy of auto diff locks.
I'm surprised no one else is flipping their tits about getting lockers.
Decent tyres, small lift and twin lockers!
Front at least for you guys with a limo rear. Rear at least for you guys with nothing.
OLE?
EBS?
Bob_Oz ? A front to match the air locker?
front locker
I'm surprised no one else is flipping their tits about getting lockers.
Decent tyres, small lift and twin lockers!
Front at least for you guys with a limo rear. Rear at least for you guys with nothing.
OLE?
EBS?
Bob_Oz ? A front to match the air locker?
I'll pass. The rear locker and my right foot will get me out of (or into) more trouble than I can handle, nearly rolled it half way up a "hill-of-death" recently so i'm running with the locker off, keeping it as a "get out of gaol free" card.
I'm very keen to see how the kaiser goes!
Another 4 pairs and we would
Another 4 pairs and we would save another $123. ortho that would be nice im not really worried. But if anone is keen Get in quick, ill leave it for a couple of days and see how keen KTM is. I might even see if some of my other 4x4 mates are keen, they dont all have to be for the iO to get us the discounts :)
I know what you mean Bob, I shat myself a couple of times on sat, I had to tie off on a tree and get my mate to help me get "back on track" But this is why i got a "cheap" 4x4, so i dont feel to bad when i do roll it :) (injury aside)
KTM, Just read throught the thread again and noticed i missed your earlyer post
sorry mate!
Found these videos on another
Found these videos on another forum, seems the suzuki guys did a GP recently also. http://www.warfs.org/forum/15-mods-projects-a-builds/2826364-group-order-for-front-kaiser-locker.html?limit=10&start=30
Id be keen for a front locker
Id be keen for a front locker definately, im pretty happy with the rear lsd so far, have some problems with the io atm so will take a little while to save, definately let me know when its all happening i dont wanna miss out, what is everyone else's opinion of running an auto locker in the front and a lsd in the rear?
I was going to start with Locker
I was going to start with Locker on the front and LSD rear. But i have been stuck a few times with the LSD not providing enough torque to turn both wheels.
Sat was one example, I got stuck reversing out of a bog with the rear flexed, one wheel compressed and the other not, so the low wheel was spinning while the compressed wheel just sat there not doing a hell of a lot at all. BobOZ stated in another thread that theres onle X torque required to turn one wheel independent of the other, and its no where near enough for some off road situations, but its a hell of a lot better than an open diff. A locker will be night and day tho! MUCH better off road, I would say i would have got out of pretty much ever situation i was stuck in if i had a locker rather than the factory LSD.
Lockers
They are still super tempting for me, im a bit strapped for cash at the moment so i think thats ruling front & rear lockers out but i may be able to grab one while the group buy is happening.
If i was just going to get a single one should i go front or rear?
For the 3door (no rear LSD) i
Hey Luke, for the 3door (no rear LSD) i would probably go for the rear first. BUT on the other hand, I think there will be a couple of io rear LSDs up for sale from some 5doors soon 
I assume the diffs are interchangeable from the 3 and 5 doors?
OK Im going to set a deadline for closing the GP, what is everyone happy with, 1week 2 weeks 4weeks ?
Im easy, i think 4 weeks is the MAX tho, any more than this and Ill just do another one.
I am unsure exactly what it
I am unsure exactly what it is, the car is current sitting in the too be sorted area where they would not let me go. They will call me once it is ready.
A complete diff is 170 dollars, or 5 if you do an exchange. I will probably want to keep my current one just in case though.
If the crown and pinion is not needed for me to fit the lsd into my car (I have no idea) Then I will gladely send them your way. Assuming its an auto.
5.1:1?
I am unsure exactly what it is, the car is current sitting in the too be sorted area where they would not let me go. They will call me once it is ready.
A complete diff is 170 dollars, or 5 if you do an exchange. I will probably want to keep my current one just in case though.
If the crown and pinion is not needed for me to fit the lsd into my car (I have no idea) Then I will gladely send them your way. Assuming its an auto.
where is it specified that the auto has a 5.1:1 gearset? i thought they were both the same
Pajero iO Diff ratio
I am unsure exactly what it is, the car is current sitting in the too be sorted area where they would not let me go. They will call me once it is ready. A complete diff is 170 dollars, or 5 if you do an exchange. I will probably want to keep my current one just in case though. If the crown and pinion is not needed for me to fit the lsd into my car (I have no idea) Then I will gladely send them your way. Assuming its an auto.
Awesome, thanks mate!
I have no firsrt hand conformation, but this is what some of the manuals say.
1.8 Ltr
2 Ltr
OK im setting the deadline
OK im setting the deadline for the end of this month. thats 3 weeks , Friday the 30th
ortho the be honest nothings going to happen over the weekend so I guess you have until Sunday night.
Ill give my Bank details to anyone interested via email or PM and transfer the $ via Ozforex to Kaiser in Brazil on Tue or wed (as soon as the last wire clears)
Im not sure how long shipping takes (ill ask them) but with any luck we will be running locked around a week latter :)
Kaiser Locker front, LSD rear
Id be keen for a front locker definately, im pretty happy with the rear lsd so far, have some problems with the io atm so will take a little while to save, definately let me know when its all happening i dont wanna miss out, what is everyone else's opinion of running an auto locker in the front and a lsd in the rear?
I think its a great idea, I joined a Brazilian forum a while ago to ask around and get more info on theses diffs in the Pajero iO, there are a heap of them doing exactly that, frond locker with LSD rear. and all are very happy with the setup. Best bang for buck. a lot end up sticking them in the rear also.
Syndicate
That looks like a really good
That looks like a really good option. Are they pricey or has the mighty Australian Dollar made it pretty reasonable?